tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post4955916239718523915..comments2024-03-22T11:37:52.668-05:00Comments on Byzantine, Texas: Vaccines and the Russian ChurchByzantine, TXhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-4805222991419876412021-06-01T23:50:42.818-05:002021-06-01T23:50:42.818-05:00Oh, and then there are the vaccine IDs. Oh, and then there are the vaccine IDs. Michael Baumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03025213649848660526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-65164192616749158442021-06-01T21:35:02.661-05:002021-06-01T21:35:02.661-05:00Beyond that is that allopathic medical care is now...Beyond that is that allopathic medical care is now corporate in nature. Primary care is no longer a decision between me and my doctor--such docs have become factotums -- checking boxes and directing me to the specialist in their corporate group so more billings are generated. I realize that health insurance is part of problem. They created billing codes and reimbursement rates that are often delusional and the whole "managed care" fiasco. <br /><br />So we are no longer treated as a whole person and frequently not a person at all.Michael Baumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03025213649848660526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-2457367721291302122021-06-01T21:18:25.503-05:002021-06-01T21:18:25.503-05:00Here is what gets me: the propagation of fear and ...Here is what gets me: the propagation of fear and the lies used to force people to make uniformed decisions and the the lack of genuine informed consent that includes other possible treatments and preventatives. That alone is a tremendous violation of medical care and medical ethics. <br />God help us all. Michael Baumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03025213649848660526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-37450719117157412212021-05-30T17:28:32.288-05:002021-05-30T17:28:32.288-05:00Johnson & Johnson used aborted fetal cell line...Johnson & Johnson used aborted fetal cell lines in its creation of the COVID-19 vaccine.Mikailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06189539560391433081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-18334357537589748602021-05-29T09:53:24.315-05:002021-05-29T09:53:24.315-05:00There is no fetal cell tissue in the Johnson and J...There is no fetal cell tissue in the Johnson and Johnson vaccine. The claims otherwise are fake news and an underhanded movement to discredit Donald Trump, who was himself the biggest champion of the J&J vaccine and who pushed for it's rapid FDA approval. <br /><br />Yes, fetal cell lines were used (unnecessarily) in it's production, but the vaccine itself does not contain fetal cells. <br />Jerry G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07509550771264547724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-37685337360308764032021-05-28T22:02:24.908-05:002021-05-28T22:02:24.908-05:00None of the available vaccines actually require te...None of the available vaccines actually require testing on fetal cell lines. It's absolutely unnecessary for their research and development. There are plenty of non-controversial alternatives to fetal cell lines for R&D that can be easily used and that work just as well. It's easy to look this fact up.<br /><br />So the drug companies are making a poor and unethical choice in using fetal cell lines for R&D. That's their bad and unnecessary choice. Using fetal cell lines just seems to be the standard operating procedure for most drug companies. Many products at the store such as shampoo, conditioner, toothpaste, mouthwash, cosmetics, etc., are likely tested on fetal cell lines also.<br /><br />Sure, we would like the drug companies to change their R&D practices, but at the same time, we shouldn't stop people from brushing their teeth and/or taking doctor-prescribed medicines that may save lives.<br />Jerry G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07509550771264547724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-69375163943868225322021-05-28T13:07:26.734-05:002021-05-28T13:07:26.734-05:00I welcomed Fr. Alexander's good public voice i...I welcomed Fr. Alexander's good public voice in the early aughts when some Orthodox were arguing for a de facto passivism. His lessor good/lessor evil distinction was and is an important one. However today he is using it in a strangely narrow manner. <br /><br />His ethical reasoning around Covid vaccine's in particular, and by implication all of modern medicine in general, is focused solely on the individual. What he is missing is that deadly pandemics are also, even mostly, *communal* realities. His ethical logic might be "valid" if every man were an island, but the fact is that deadly pandemics and the ethics around vaccines are not (Christian) realities merely subject to a calculus of individual(istic) moral purity. In other words a "choice" by an individual is not for them alone because it is in truth a decision for every other person in community (such as a parish) and society as a whole.<br /><br />Our modern (both secular and unfortunately religious) habit to think of vaccination (and most other things) in terms of rights, choice, privacy, and the like is a basic category error.<br /><br />Add to this Fr. Alexander bluster in asserting his (erroneous) ethical reasoning is "consensus patrum" and the like, I'm willing to say that his voice is not going to have the same impact as it did 15 years ago...Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-83631822450603196772021-05-28T12:58:02.074-05:002021-05-28T12:58:02.074-05:00The Moderna and Pfizer were tested using aborted f...The Moderna and Pfizer were tested using aborted fetal cell lines. The Johnson & Johnson contains aborted fetal cell lines.<br /><br />Y'all do what you have to do.<br /><br />Count me out.Mikailhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06189539560391433081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-47870165175795378742021-05-28T12:50:06.769-05:002021-05-28T12:50:06.769-05:00"Except Johnson and Johnson isn't mRNA.&q..."Except Johnson and Johnson isn't mRNA." <br /><br />True, hard to cover everything in a comment box. It is also true that the Johnson and Johnson vaccine does NOT contain aborted baby DNA, baby fragments, microchips, alien technology, or any other such thing...Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-11795335722436491712021-05-28T02:21:52.778-05:002021-05-28T02:21:52.778-05:00Except Johnson and Johnson isn't mRNA.Except Johnson and Johnson isn't mRNA.jckstraw72https://www.blogger.com/profile/04268805027248694534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-39667264577258540332021-05-27T20:17:15.193-05:002021-05-27T20:17:15.193-05:00It all disrupts the communal life of the Church an...It all disrupts the communal life of the Church and distracts us all from a life of spiritual warfare and leads to distrust of our bishops our priests and each other. The demons could not do a better job if they tried. Michael Baumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03025213649848660526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-36219705236460760592021-05-27T20:12:19.279-05:002021-05-27T20:12:19.279-05:00Ahhh... in all cases, ignorance is bliss and both ...Ahhh... in all cases, ignorance is bliss and both the bliss and ignorance are maintained by capricious selection of "facts" based on an a priori "moral conclusion".<br /><br />Bottom line: "I will take the vaccine because I want to" OR "I will not take the vaccine because I do not want to. "<br /><br />It is all specious moral/intellectual posturing to promote oneself as important and knowing. In other words a modern occultism. <br /><br />Gag me with a spoon! Michael Baumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03025213649848660526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-41030309315954323982021-05-27T20:08:45.232-05:002021-05-27T20:08:45.232-05:00Archpriest Alexander Webster seems to be at odds o...Archpriest Alexander Webster seems to be at odds on this topic, not only with the Russian Orthodox Church, but also with ROCOR. His Grace Bishop Luke of Syracuse has clearly stated that "Orthodox faithful need neither to seek a special blessing to receive the vaccines nor are they forbidden to receive them."<br /><br />Will Fr. Alexander now deny Holy Communion to the "unrepentant" vaccinated?<br /><br />Jerry G.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07509550771264547724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-44515180499324012622021-05-27T16:22:27.915-05:002021-05-27T16:22:27.915-05:00Like I said, you've got a lot of priors you...Like I said, you've got a lot of priors you're bringing into this which remain rigorously disputed by many scientists.The Anti-Gnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04386593803225823789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-50454659241797630822021-05-27T16:17:16.021-05:002021-05-27T16:17:16.021-05:00Fr. Alexander's problem is a legal one, or rat...Fr. Alexander's problem is a legal one, or rather the limits of the legal mind/schema. The Pharisee says it is not legal, or moral, to heal on a Saturday. Jesus disagree's, or rather transcends moral categories. St. Paul tells us the Law is not enough, but Fr. Alexander wants it to be - no grey for him. He probably does not know that other vaccines and therapies which he likely has already participated in were beneficiaries of these very same cloned cell lines.<br /><br />"...while waiting for a truly moral alternative.". It's almost as if Fr. Alexander waits for the Messiah...Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-91139691296716555762021-05-27T16:02:55.022-05:002021-05-27T16:02:55.022-05:00It's both better and worse than this Unknown. ...It's both better and worse than this Unknown. These cloned cells are part of the testing of many modern vaccines, medicines, and therapies. You will have to reject a large part of ALL of modern medicine if you are going to participate in it.<br /><br />This is wrong however:<br /><br />"The Johnson & Johnson injection contains DNA fragments from aborted babies..."<br /><br />None of the vaccines (Covid or otherwise) contain "DNA fragments", or any other kind of fragment, from an aborted baby or anyone else. That's not the way mRNA vaccines (or any other mRNA therapy) works. Your copying and pasting lies out of ignorance.Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-86967394062923735562021-05-27T16:01:49.752-05:002021-05-27T16:01:49.752-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-40695239234686793492021-05-27T15:38:31.294-05:002021-05-27T15:38:31.294-05:00"To summarize my moral case against all the C..."To summarize my moral case against all the COVID-19 vaccines currently available and most still in production, I offer the following reflections as one Orthodox moral theologian—no more, no less.<br /><br />We must reject, on moral grounds, all COVID-19 vaccines that have any connection to aborted preborn baby cells (especially those babies who were “kept alive” long enough for scientists to extract the kidneys or retinas from which they derived the desired “material.”) Time and distance are irrelevant to profiteering from such abominations for any reason, even life-saving in the present or future. According to traditional Orthodox moral theology (as opposed to revisionist variations so common today), certain actions (“means” to “ends”) are objectively, intrinsically evil under any “circumstances”—most notably, abortion, rape, incest, child abuse, physical torture, and deliberate targeting of non-combatants in war.<br /><br />Otherwise, we fall into a utilitarian or, worse, the consequentialist temptation that justifies anything however repellent and abominable for the “greater good” that one may have as his intention. The New Testament, the consensus patrum, and our own Orthodox-informed consciences all testify to the uncontestable moral maxim that we may not do evil to achieve good. There is no “lesser evil” that is tolerable to achieve, ostensibly, a “greater good.” If the means or action toward even a good end is intrinsically evil, the entire decision must be deemed immoral and unacceptable in all circumstances. A “lesser evil” decision process cloaked in “greater good” language is sophistry, prelest, and sheer moral evil.<br /><br />Is our own bodily health, including likely immunity via vaccination from a pandemic that, despite the toll of deaths—each one tragic and unnecessary—is only one of many other, some more deadly pandemics in human history, worth compromising an informed moral conscience by benefiting in any way from the abomination of abortions?<br /><br />Ultimately, our unbroken faith and hope in God the Holy Trinity and in the life in the world to come will sustain us in this present biological trial. It will take that—as well as courage—to eschew tempting but immoral medical solutions to the COVID-19 virus while waiting for a truly moral alternative.<br /><br />May our Lord grant us the strength to do so."<br /><br />https://www.monomakhos.com/on-covid-vaccines-and-the-church/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17599107796862931391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-16949880833517113772021-05-27T15:36:46.932-05:002021-05-27T15:36:46.932-05:00Dr Stanley Plotkin used 76 murdered babies to prod...Dr Stanley Plotkin used 76 murdered babies to produce the 2 cell lines which were used in the development and testing, and in some cases production, of the dangerous, inefficacious, and unnecessary experimental gene therapies ("vaccines"). It should be obvious to any Christian that any such injections are impermissible.<br /><br />Sources below:<br /><br />"Unfortunately, as John-Henry Westen so recently documented, it is not uncommon for vaccine researchers to dissimulate in a similar way on the use of aborted fetal tissue in their research. Dr. Stanley Plotkin, who gave a nine-hour deposition on his work with aborted fetal tissue in vaccines, has publicly claimed that only two abortions were involved in the creation of the cell lines that are used in vaccines. While not technically an overt lie, the assertion ignores the other 74 aborted fetuses who were used in the experiments conducted by Dr. Plotkin himself as he worked on developing aborted fetal cell–derived vaccines. In essence, he is counting only the abortions that went into the “finished product” and not those that were involved in the research and development that made the cell lines possible. This misleads those who are trying to make evaluations of the gravity of using these cell lines."<br /><br />--<br /><br />"It is commonly cited that just two aborted fetuses have been used in fetal cell line development, but in his testimony during a January 2018 deposition during a custody dispute, Dr. Stanley Plotkin, a world renowned vaccine scientist was introduced as an expert witness by the plaintiff and admitted that he used the tissues of 76 fetuses in just one study he conducted at the Wistar Institute. The use of aborted babies in vaccine development is clearly more frequent than we are being told."<br /><br />--<br /><br />"Furthermore, the Russian Church considers it ethically unacceptable to use cell lines derived from human embryonic tissue to develop vaccines, Fr. Theodore writes. HEK 293, derived from human embryonic kidneys, has become widespread in cell biology, Fr. Theodore notes, but the Russian Church recognizes the embryo as a human and considers abortion to be murder, as detailed in the Basis of the Social Concept of the Russian Orthodox Church."<br /><br />--<br /><br />"All COVID-19 shots are connected to the abortion industry<br /><br />By far my biggest reason to refuse these horrid jabs is that they are all connected with the abortion industry. This is indisputably anti-life.<br /><br />LifeSite’s John-Henry Westen shares some clips of Stanley Plotkin’s 9-hour testimony before the U.S. Senate. Plotkin reluctantly admitted that over 70 babies’ corpses were used in the process of finding the two cell lines that would be used in a number of vaccines. Some people say that since these cell lines, obtained in the 1970s, are so distantly connected to abortion as to be untainted, it’s okay to get the vaccines. But the fact is that new cell lines are being developed all the time, because cell lines die out eventually and there aren’t enough of them for all the research “scientists” want to do.<br /><br />Pamela Acker is a biologist and researcher who explains the horrors of the abortions done to obtain material for medical research — including researching, testing, and manufacturing vaccines. These innocent children are delivered via Caesarian section. Their tissues are harvested from them while they are still alive and without benefit of anesthesia, since that would damage the usefulness of the tissues. WI-38, MRC-5, HEK-293, PER C-6 are some of the cell lines that are currently used in the manufacture of various vaccines.<br /><br />The Johnson & Johnson injection contains DNA fragments from aborted babies. The Moderna and Pfizer injections were tested on aborted fetal tissue. They are all created at the expense of an innocent child. I cannot and will not be a party to such barbarism."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17599107796862931391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-47208159643873743572021-05-27T15:36:08.818-05:002021-05-27T15:36:08.818-05:00God gave us free will and respects it to the point...God gave us free will and respects it to the point that He lets us blaspheme and reject Him or serve Him in whichever capacity we feel called. Yet people think they have a right to take it away. Cute.<br /><br />I find the statement by the round table somewhat contradictory at times tho. They say it’s not unethical to take a vaccine developed with the help of abortion...but then they say if there is a vaccine that wasn’t developed with the help of abortion, that’s the more ethical choice. <br /><br />So that clearly implies abortion based technology is unethical (which it clearly is) but they’re okay with using it as long as there’s no better option...not impressedSojournerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01283481525249234342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-22559644595394657642021-05-27T13:14:32.808-05:002021-05-27T13:14:32.808-05:00TAG, freedom (means among other things) the abilit...TAG, freedom (means among other things) the ability to cos-play a physician/epidemiologist. You can ignorantly string together what you read (and think) all day long, but you will reamin just as wrong, and just as individualistic.<br /><br />I'm more interested in freedom from an actual Christian perspective. Besides the "freedom" to choose between error/sin/death and bondage to Christ and His Cross, there really is not any "Christian" freedom per se, How actual Christian freedom work out in a communal sense in relation to the reality of virus, vectors, and deadly pandemics. <br /><br />This Russian effort is interesting because it rejects the idea that Orthodoxy has a principled rejection of vaccines and they rational wrestle with cloning and its sources. What this report does not do is define "freedom" theologically or in context...<br /><br />Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-38113450812035659382021-05-27T12:38:21.742-05:002021-05-27T12:38:21.742-05:00You've got a lot of priors loaded in there.
Y...You've got a lot of priors loaded in there.<br /><br />You can get the vaccine and you can still get COVID, you can still transmit COVID, and based on the sample I saw from Arizona, the same percentage of hospitalizations from a "breakthrough" infection regardless of the vaccine.<br /><br />It looks more and more like a jacked-up coronavirus leaked out of the Wuhan lab from US-funded research. The same medical establishment responsible for this global screw-up wants me to take their unapproved bug juice. Every eight months. In other words, the immunity is completely transient and we are already chasing this virus from behind, as we have been with the rolling influenza pandemic that started in the early 20th century.<br /><br />I got COVID antibodies the old-fashioned way. I'm not taking the vaxx.The Anti-Gnostichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04386593803225823789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-22797922073255473492021-05-27T11:11:28.493-05:002021-05-27T11:11:28.493-05:00"FREEDOM OF CHOICE" is a"GOD GIVEN ..."FREEDOM OF CHOICE" is a"GOD GIVEN GIFT",lest ye forget!Wisdomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08948372349503938747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-61751991487345363702021-05-26T17:44:48.406-05:002021-05-26T17:44:48.406-05:00"The idea that a principal refusal to get vac..."The idea that a principal refusal to get vaccination as such may be explained by the Orthodox faith is erroneous."<br /><br />Not exactly analogous, but related, is St. Paul not offering a principled rejection of slavery, instead instructing slaves and masters to love and serve one another *witin the context of the institution itself*.<br /><br />The statement does not go into how "freedom of choice" is balanced with other goods. For example, does "freedom of choice" extend to the "choice" of knowingly being a vector for a deadly pandemic, no matter how it is individually/morally justified? Do Church and other communities have the freedom to isolate these individuals from their communal life, or does individual choice trump all other goods?Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.com