tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post6719806307463962744..comments2024-03-22T11:37:52.668-05:00Comments on Byzantine, Texas: Luna Lovegood and the Quibbler couldn't have done betterByzantine, TXhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-39557163086938251242017-11-16T18:01:53.739-06:002017-11-16T18:01:53.739-06:00The real problem is that being modern consumers we...The real problem is that being modern consumers we monetize everything and expect a utilitarian outcome of a cost-benefit analysis. Nonesense.<br /><br />That kind of thinking itself is horribly at odds with the life of the Church yet we are all poisoned by it. Unfortunately it is a sort of scholasticism and the premises are bought into by everybody. <br /><br />Can't have a genuine discussion until we at least try to put off our blinders and see more deeply. Otherwise we are rearranging deck chairs on a fantasy Titanic. Michael Baumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03025213649848660526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-85246469676175573042017-11-16T15:52:03.664-06:002017-11-16T15:52:03.664-06:00Agree to disagree.Agree to disagree.Byzantine, TXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-26386672069221654742017-11-16T15:46:00.801-06:002017-11-16T15:46:00.801-06:00So, for monastic clergy the measure of how well we...So, for monastic clergy the measure of how well we treat them is the amount of salary we give them? So, they take a vow of poverty but we pay them lavishly anyway?<br /><br />The question of whether we should pay our married parish clergy more is quite separate from the appropriate compensation for monastics.123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-8171250893898521292017-11-16T14:54:02.180-06:002017-11-16T14:54:02.180-06:00Agreed, one can't argue clergy are not merely ...Agreed, one can't argue clergy are not merely "'employees' of the Church" and then in the next paragraph complain no "employer get[s] to look at your family situation and dock your pay for not having a wife or children" (since no employer would be able to require an employee be celibate for a leadership role or bar them from getting remarried if their wife dies). <br /><br />My argument being that we should treat our clergy better than hired hands. So that I can in fact argue that point.Byzantine, TXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-6952725878375901462017-11-16T14:21:13.064-06:002017-11-16T14:21:13.064-06:00I believe Met. Anthony Bloom made sure his married...I believe Met. Anthony Bloom made sure his married clergy with families received more than he and other monastic clergy did. Of course, they could also rely on a more robust social safety net in Britain.123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-45719782605914541452017-11-16T14:19:46.829-06:002017-11-16T14:19:46.829-06:00Agreed, one can't argue clergy are not merely ...Agreed, one can't argue clergy are not merely "'employees' of the Church" and then in the next paragraph complain no "employer get[s] to look at your family situation and dock your pay for not having a wife or children" (since no employer would be able to require an employee be celibate for a leadership role or bar them from getting remarried if their wife dies). <br /><br />Bishops and monastics don't need high pay now because they have a special status in the church. What is at issue really with this particular class of clergy is whether they can be cared for in retirement. One can very easily see the value in monastic clergy and bishops receiving modestly lower wages while ensuring pension and health contributions that will pay off when they are no longer able to serve. Guaranteed care in a monastery or clergy retirement home could also be considered. Again, they are either employees or not, but that can't be one or the other only when it best suits their wants. Not that anyone would argue for destitution or homelessness, but do monastics merely take so-called vows of poverty or is that another example of liberal economia?123https://www.blogger.com/profile/14514075641944568806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-22700848085259448122017-11-16T13:24:01.499-06:002017-11-16T13:24:01.499-06:00That this is even a significant issue illustrates ...That this is even a significant issue illustrates our poverty.Michael Baumanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03025213649848660526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-45571842471904647532017-11-16T12:46:41.014-06:002017-11-16T12:46:41.014-06:00Paying less to monastics (who are theoretically su...Paying less to monastics (who are theoretically supposed not to pursue money) makes some sense.mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05572603372579540256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-76108548286925758622017-11-16T10:49:55.810-06:002017-11-16T10:49:55.810-06:00Good annotations. I agree with this article in su...Good annotations. I agree with this article in substance (more godly and thrifty fiscal management by church officials) but not at all in tone or spirit.Evangelical Orthodoxyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10619519505562369996noreply@blogger.com