tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post8577449751120417423..comments2024-03-22T11:37:52.668-05:00Comments on Byzantine, Texas: UOC-MP issues resolutions on state of affairs in UkraineByzantine, TXhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-32489293354151413412018-11-19T20:12:39.436-06:002018-11-19T20:12:39.436-06:00""Read: We're real Ukrainians and no...""Read: We're real Ukrainians and not shills for Russia."<br /><br />-Perhaps. But do their brothers and sisters in Western Ukraine feel that way about them?"<br />You didn't know that Met. Onufriy of Kiev and All Ukraine is from Western Ukraine, like his predecessor, Met. Volodymyr of Kiev and All Ukraine?<br />Mykhailo Antonovych Denysenko is from Eastern Ukraine, the Donbass?<br />"Trust has been broken, and having Patriarch Kyrill's picture on the wall is a non-starter."<br />au contraire<br />Isa Almisryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13749216447941238038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-26712315222518166652018-11-15T22:58:05.975-06:002018-11-15T22:58:05.975-06:00Prayers for the suffering Church in the Ukraine. ...Prayers for the suffering Church in the Ukraine. Lord, have mercy.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-54455073211080886742018-11-15T20:28:50.627-06:002018-11-15T20:28:50.627-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-80952967404931764362018-11-15T20:28:37.149-06:002018-11-15T20:28:37.149-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-65572048950788996452018-11-15T20:28:09.415-06:002018-11-15T20:28:09.415-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-55049855494636187422018-11-15T20:00:00.704-06:002018-11-15T20:00:00.704-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-50085566633294107522018-11-15T12:53:10.776-06:002018-11-15T12:53:10.776-06:00I think you’re taking this a little too personally...I think you’re taking this a little too personally Mr. White, which is understandable to the degree that if you are under the EP you’re no longer in communion with MP, but nevertheless objectivity is important.<br /><br />ROCOR was an entirely different situation. They had a mandate from St. Tikhon Patriarch of Moscow to break away from the MP until Communism fell, to preserve the faith until the church in Russia was free. They were not in schism, if they had refused to rejoin MP after the fall of communism, they would have been in schism, but thankfully that didn’t happen.<br /><br />The accepting of an individual who has been punished by another bishop is an unfortunate practice that is a common part of the history of the church. It doesn’t make it okay, but it also has very little to do with this situation. <br /><br />Accepting a priest who claims he was wrongfully punished, is completely different from taking over someone else’s jurisdiction, and setting up your own.<br /><br />The MP has stated their case, that EP has not acted in good faith or according to canon law, which no one has contested except EP. In fact I have yet to see a single autocephalous church come out and say that EP is correct, most have said the opposite or have said we need a council. That should really tell you something.<br /><br />Can you site an official statement of the ROC or ROCOR that is endorsing ethnophyletism? So far the only one to bring race into the equation has been EP who has used Slavs and Slavic in a ethnophyletist negative connotation; and again the Ukrainian schismatics are quite blatant that this is about ethnicity in their anti-Russian statements. <br /><br />Believing that EP’s uncanonical intervention has bourne positive fruit is honestly an amazing claim to make. <br /><br />So far the only “fruit” is the largest schism since 1054, which would not have happened if he stopped and engaged in a council and dialogue instead of ignoring every branch of the church calling for such, the imminent threat of massive church seizures through violence by schismatics who are claiming they have the right to take canonical churches and monasteries as soon as there is a tomos granted; and setting a precedence for the idea of a papal authority in Orthodoxy and a total disregard for canon law. That’s some pretty rotten fruit by any account.<br /><br />The autonomous and canonical Ukrainian church, made up of Ukrainians, has just declared they don’t agree with EP and they will have no part with schismatics who have not repented. <br /><br />All this talk of autocephaly and “freedom” from Russian political influence, and yet we’re going to ignore what the largest body of canonical Ukrainians wants? As if they don’t matter? Who is playing politics here? Sojournerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01283481525249234342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-15814311265788385482018-11-15T10:21:42.396-06:002018-11-15T10:21:42.396-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.BorisJojicjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02796218761394313699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-60633735939872991932018-11-15T09:24:15.008-06:002018-11-15T09:24:15.008-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-50589121721238878632018-11-15T08:32:05.919-06:002018-11-15T08:32:05.919-06:00Sorry typo *The church of Russia does not wish chi...Sorry typo *The church of Russia does not wish children to be..Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06277889467316537183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-70157943610627448522018-11-15T08:30:27.055-06:002018-11-15T08:30:27.055-06:00The MP has repeatedly stated that it would attend ...The MP has repeatedly stated that it would attend a council once called. But if it were to be called after this faux autocephalous church has been established, that would be exceedingly backhanded. (As if this whole situation caused by the EP isnt backhanded enough towards the church of Moscow already). The church of Russia wish children to be "denied the Holy Mysteries because their parish is on the wrong side of the line" but has always wished sincerely for the schismatics to return home to their mother church through canonical means. So that the long suffering church of Ukraine might be strengthened and united. It is rather insulting and presumptuous sir that you would imply that the church of Moscow would somehow see benefit from "childrwn being denied the holy mysteties". Patriarch Kirill himself has stated that he prays for Ukraine every day, and sincerely cares for all the souls of Ukraine. Please stop making such accusatory and misleading statements. May Christ our true God be with you my friend.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06277889467316537183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-20115375264205596952018-11-15T00:05:57.840-06:002018-11-15T00:05:57.840-06:00"This is what I think is the most powerful me..."This is what I think is the most powerful message to the other Local Churches. If you can do this to Ukraine, why not to any other Church who calls Constantinople her Mother Church? The Serbians, for example, asked this very question."<br /><br />-A fair question, but not the same circumstances. The Ukraine's "jurisdictional" history has been messier than most, with lines drawn and redrawn. The least we can say is that this whole area is "disputed." Whatever you think of the EP's actions, it isn't as clear cut as partisans would have you believe.<br /><br />"Read: We aren't going to join in your reindeer games while you try to build this plastic, lifeless and graceless new autocephalous entity."<br /><br />-The Ukrainian Churches in North America were reconciled and reintegrated into the Church. Moscow didn't like that either, but it was done. The same can happen here. People who were outside the Church have a chance to be brought back in. This schism is political (like ROCOR's and the UOC-USA/CANADA) and it can be healed. <br /><br />"We plan to keep playing by the rules. When you decide to follow the rules too we'll let you play again."<br /><br />-Again, what did ROCOR's repentance look like?<br /><br />"It's not too late to turn back, EP."<br /><br />-To what? Children being denied the Holy Mysteries because their parish is on the wrong side of the line?<br /><br />"Someone turn on the batsignal."<br /><br />-Cute. Fortunately though, HAH is not unaware of how unsettling this is for the Church and a Council will no doubt be called when everything settles down. The question is, will the MP come?<br /><br />David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-5000978672722311972018-11-14T23:55:36.989-06:002018-11-14T23:55:36.989-06:00"Read: We're real Ukrainians and not shil..."Read: We're real Ukrainians and not shills for Russia."<br /><br />-Perhaps. But do their brothers and sisters in Western Ukraine feel that way about them? Trust has been broken, and having Patriarch Kyrill's picture on the wall is a non-starter.<br /><br />"Keep politics out of the Church."<br /><br />-That would be fantastic, but in our entire history, has this ever actually happened when it comes to the question of autocephalacy?<br /><br />"The EP claims the name "Ukrainian Orthodox Church" fosters ethnophyletism and should be renamed the "Orthodox Church in Ukraine." Somewhat ironic given the problem is that they are trying to make a new Church along national/ethnic lines. Also somewhat ironic considering the refusal to acknowledge the autocephaly of the Orthodox Church in America."<br /><br />-ethnophyletism is a lingering problem across the entire Church. I think fighting over names is just a small part of a bigger question here (Looking at you, "Russky Mir"). Unilaterally declaring a church autocephalous is seen as a problem, is it not? No matter who does it.<br /><br />"Read: None of what the EP is doing is canonical either in letter or spirit."<br /><br />-The entire Diaspora situation is "uncanonical." It is easy to hide behind the Canons to support an ulterior agenda. The EP is trying to get the three groups in Ukraine to come together as one. Ideally, the MP should have done this, but for various reasons they haven't (they could have also headed this off by granting autocephalacy in the early 90s). When maintaining the integrity of "Holy Rus" becomes more important than the pastoral, practical healing of a bad situation, then we will have issues. The MP keeps saying that the schismatics have to "repent." <br /><br />http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/synod/engdocuments/enmat_akt.html<br /><br />The act of Canonical reunion between the MP and ROCOR. Did ROCOR have to "repent" of their schism? And of the Old Believers? What did their "repentance" look like?<br /><br />David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-77409968968629478172018-11-14T20:16:27.923-06:002018-11-14T20:16:27.923-06:00This is just crazy.... http://www.fox2detroit.com/...This is just crazy.... http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/memorial-service-set-for-wednesday-to-honor-fallen-k9-axeAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15059201988043809350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-30875720646234836442018-11-14T20:15:36.722-06:002018-11-14T20:15:36.722-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15059201988043809350noreply@blogger.com