I'm not particularly impressed. I'm not a big fan of using "You" and "Your" when referring to Christ. I appreciate the beauty and reverence of "Thee", "Thy", and "Thou".
They should have looked to ROCOR or the Antiochians instead of the Greeks for their translation.
I feel the same way, as I generally like the Antiochian translations best, but it is ironic that “thee” and “thou” mean exactly the opposite of the popular conception. They’re actually the less formal mode of address, like the German “du” or Spanish “tu.” It’s only in falling out of use that they’ve come to be perceived as higher or more formal.
Yay, another translation we can try to use together, awkwardly. The particularities of our own tradition are so much more important than our supposedly shared Faith. Actions speak louder than words.
So true. If the orthodox "church" cannot unite in one English liturgical translation then it is clear that this is not a "church" but a federation of ethnic churches. It is pathetic but entirely predictable. Each bishop vying for their own popularity whilst caring nought for the people.
The translation they used as their basis is the one produced by Fr. Ephrem Lash, whose reputation is stellar. The art is beautiful, if too over-present. The type-setting seems excellent at first glance, although I tend to prefer justified paragraphs. And, I will be ordering one to add to my collection, if only for study purposes.
Unity is not necessarily synonomous with uniformity. What is wrong with a confederation of national churches? The nation of Israel was a confederation was it not? Are we not the new Israel?
Even the angels have different choirs.
Our head is Christ. Even at Pentecost everyone spoke in their own tongue but each understood all.
They simply aren't the same. You can read a Greek and Slavonic text side by side and they don't match. In translation to English they aren't going to match either.
Romanian liturgical texts differ also, despite having an autocephalous church for over 100 years:
"Glory" can be either Slavă or Mărire
"the evil one" from the Lord's prayer can be either "cel rău" or "cel viclean"
There are also two very different translations of the Paraklesis of the Mother of God, one following an older text https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-cb1A92g44 and one made to fit better the Byzantine music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEA4Zi4gylQ
So this has nothing to do with phyletism, it is just a sign of the healthy "diversity in unity" one finds in Orthodoxy
I haven’t seen that many stylized “icons” crammed on a page since my days as a Catholic.....
ReplyDeleteThat is just beautiful! I hope the paper it is printed on is of as high a quality. It looks like a masterpiece from the video.
ReplyDeleteI'm not particularly impressed. I'm not a big fan of using "You" and "Your" when referring to Christ. I appreciate the beauty and reverence of "Thee", "Thy", and "Thou".
ReplyDeleteThey should have looked to ROCOR or the Antiochians instead of the Greeks for their translation.
I feel the same way, as I generally like the Antiochian translations best, but it is ironic that “thee” and “thou” mean exactly the opposite of the popular conception. They’re actually the less formal mode of address, like the German “du” or Spanish “tu.” It’s only in falling out of use that they’ve come to be perceived as higher or more formal.
DeleteYay, another translation we can try to use together, awkwardly. The particularities of our own tradition are so much more important than our supposedly shared Faith. Actions speak louder than words.
ReplyDeleteSo true. If the orthodox "church" cannot unite in one English liturgical translation then it is clear that this is not a "church" but a federation of ethnic churches. It is pathetic but entirely predictable. Each bishop vying for their own popularity whilst caring nought for the people.
DeleteThe translation they used as their basis is the one produced by Fr. Ephrem Lash, whose reputation is stellar. The art is beautiful, if too over-present. The type-setting seems excellent at first glance, although I tend to prefer justified paragraphs. And, I will be ordering one to add to my collection, if only for study purposes.
ReplyDeleteA work of beauty, a giving thanks-moment as well as forward looking.
ReplyDeleteSome of these posts remind me that one-third of the heavenly hosts complained.
Blessed Lent
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteUnity is not necessarily synonomous with uniformity. What is wrong with a confederation of national churches? The nation of Israel was a confederation was it not? Are we not the new Israel?
ReplyDeleteEven the angels have different choirs.
Our head is Christ. Even at Pentecost everyone spoke in their own tongue but each understood all.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThey simply aren't the same. You can read a Greek and Slavonic text side by side and they don't match. In translation to English they aren't going to match either.
DeleteThanks for the clarification. I guess I just miss the BCP 😒
DeleteRomanian liturgical texts differ also, despite having an autocephalous church for over 100 years:
ReplyDelete"Glory" can be either Slavă or Mărire
"the evil one" from the Lord's prayer can be either "cel rău" or "cel viclean"
There are also two very different translations of the Paraklesis of the Mother of God, one following an older text
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-cb1A92g44
and one made to fit better the Byzantine music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEA4Zi4gylQ
So this has nothing to do with phyletism, it is just a sign of the healthy "diversity in unity" one finds in Orthodoxy
This is a beautiful book. I hope to get a copy. I like Father's artwork. I am glad it is in plain noble english. Thank you, Father for posting this.
ReplyDelete