tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post3996664601570088694..comments2024-03-22T11:37:52.668-05:00Comments on Byzantine, Texas: The Canadian govt. vs. the church. vs. the laityByzantine, TXhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-51721950594917053642020-07-19T22:53:22.249-05:002020-07-19T22:53:22.249-05:00i think we know the answer but we are too polite t...i think we know the answer but we are too polite to say what is uncomfortable "lest we offend." A friend used to say if u sup with the devil use a long fork.Archimandrite Gregoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09894842027467584759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-42717279213248326232020-07-19T18:11:55.535-05:002020-07-19T18:11:55.535-05:00This assertion that secularizing Canadian cultural...This assertion that secularizing Canadian cultural influence is going to flow south is a hoot! They all live within 30 miles of our border and their government agencies are continually trying to mitigate the strong one-way influence the US exerts on Canadians. <br />This Toronto flap is not remotely a case of government overreach and persecution of Christians. It’s a case of unchurched Greeks having inordinate sway to the extent of owning (!) several church buildings and snitching on the priests appointed by the Metropolitan. The question no one seem to be interested in asking is what is their motivation? Why do these wealthy people who call the shots in Greek churches in Toronto want to make trouble? And what measures is Sotirios going to take to call them to heel/heal? I haven’t heard a word about excommunication. Lance H.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16533031442254954096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-25161445815406486712020-07-17T15:51:51.662-05:002020-07-17T15:51:51.662-05:00"...This is a battle of secularization, with ..."...This is a battle of secularization, with this church association and many others seeing Orthodoxy as a method of preserving culture, and other extremist internal groups seeing it all as a conspiracy and who see any attempt to accommodate as selling out..."<br /><br />That seems a good summary.Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-13358067621254877412020-07-17T14:32:04.394-05:002020-07-17T14:32:04.394-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-18590125167124220022020-07-17T13:23:27.042-05:002020-07-17T13:23:27.042-05:00Historically, what did Orthodox rulers do with the...Historically, what did Orthodox rulers do with the churches during contagious epidemics. In the West, it was not uncommon to close the churches to protect against contagion. What of pre-1917 Russia and the Byzantine Empire? Is there a difference between ancient and more recent practices based on germ theory and and a more modern understanding of bacteria, viruses, and public health? These arguments are being had in a historical vacuum where people are trying to work through solutions to problems that have been with society forever. 1917 wasn't long ago and Greece was an independent nation. What did they do then? On what information (or lack thereof) did they make those decisions? Are we beholden to opinions based on erroneous facts? I can't imagine there have not been examples in Orthodox history where the churches were closed. Given the fact frequent communion was not the tradition of most of the Church for most of its history, a short-term decision not to commune out of necessity does not seem to be a problem. It's not like we are Catholics where daily communion became not only possible but an ideal. Despising communion is one thing, refraining from communion to protect life (your own and others) another.123https://www.blogger.com/profile/12396302238693153833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-69587104217694703622020-07-17T11:30:27.697-05:002020-07-17T11:30:27.697-05:00And frankly the high percentage of Greeks who are ...And frankly the high percentage of Greeks who are Masons, including clergy. Goes back to Greek independence movement.Archimandrite Gregoryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09894842027467584759noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-71819937022574595232020-07-17T10:10:07.248-05:002020-07-17T10:10:07.248-05:00Agree with Basil, the health authorities seem to b...Agree with Basil, the health authorities seem to be reasonably accommodating without the complaints. This is not a "persecution", the GOC is shooting itself in the foot. <br /><br />We cant expect secular officials, (Canada is a relatively secular nation) to understand the importance of communion or to act like Christians. When we talk to them about communion they are surprised it is "important" and "not optional" and work with the churches to accommodate. But if they receive complaints their hand is forced to enforce rules (without an exception in writing). (these rules where drafted with input protestant church leaders who dont think communion is important). Its similar to many bi-law officers that self reporting something usually results in a warning versus someones complaint. <br /><br />This is a battle of secularization, with this church association and many others seeing Orthodoxy as a method of preserving culture, and other extremist internal groups seeing it all as a conspiracy and who see any attempt to accommodate as selling out. Michael Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03910016378835393764noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-59665504659582946082020-07-16T20:54:38.972-05:002020-07-16T20:54:38.972-05:00Snitches get stitches, yo.Snitches get stitches, yo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-12618391053585643602020-07-16T20:15:24.991-05:002020-07-16T20:15:24.991-05:00Thanks for the insight - your right, these sorts o...Thanks for the insight - your right, these sorts of things almost always have a background and context.Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-39607645793978461042020-07-16T20:13:22.690-05:002020-07-16T20:13:22.690-05:00"...your take away is that the government coe..."...your take away is that the government coercion is besides the point and the real problem is a lack of unity..."<br /><br />Yes, just as it was Archbp. Sotirios'. <br /><br />Intolerance, threats, millions of dollars of fines, hangings on crosses - what do you expect from your Godless and now (since we are well into post Christian culture) very intolerant neighbors? <br /><br />Don't get me wrong we should, on a political as well as every other level, fight this intolerance as best we can, mostly by pointing out how our intolerant neighbors are incoherent with their purported beliefs. However these are at best rear guard actions in a war we have been losing for a very long time here in western civilization, and we must be prepared to lose our property, our $millions$ in the short term (because we will lose some of these battles). Our children and especially their children should probably be prepared to lose their livelihoods, their freedom, and sometimes their lives.<br /><br />I along with ArchBp. Sotirios are much more interested in how intolerant secularism (of both the "liberal" and the "conservative" kind) is spoiling the foundation of the Church from within...Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-88322204213037715972020-07-16T18:50:42.709-05:002020-07-16T18:50:42.709-05:00The "issues" at hand has not made it to ...The "issues" at hand has not made it to the "mainstream media" My friends in Toronto report other Orthodox Churches, of various jurisdictions, are giving Holy Communion with the Holy Spoon. Some priests are asking people not to close their mouth on the spoon. The Greek churches in question are also the ones who said the ArchBishop was sending pedofiles and defrocked priests etc to their churches a couple of years ago. This "issue" is just a symptom of other complaints in the GOC in TorontoBasilCanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02731848909138035324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-1275534157103830422020-07-16T18:46:22.766-05:002020-07-16T18:46:22.766-05:00Two parishioners made complaints to the local gove...Two parishioners made complaints to the local government authority, who called Archbishop Sotirios and threatened him with millions of dollars in fines and closing their Churches, and your take away is that the government coercion is besides the point and the real problem is a lack of unity...Fr. Alexis Baldwinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15453923952666184098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-38592603701944703102020-07-16T18:43:41.695-05:002020-07-16T18:43:41.695-05:00As usual, there is much more to the story.As usual, there is much more to the story.BasilCanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02731848909138035324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-23743329905292950732020-07-16T13:22:30.779-05:002020-07-16T13:22:30.779-05:00To our host: Your introduction is interesting, in...To our host: Your introduction is interesting, in that the thrust of the letter is about the real divide *inside* the Church, but your emphasis is about government/cultural pressure from the *outside*.<br /><br />I am with Archbishop Sotirios, that the outside pressure is almost besides the point (because its always there in one form or another, the purpose of being a "cult" - the Cult of Christ - is to form ourselves to endure it, etc.). The lack of unity *inside*, from the "left" (i.e. faithless who are running to the authorities) and the "right" (i.e. the "extremists" who demonize the economic actions of Archbishop Sotirios and the hierarchy)reveals that the secularization, even in the "religious" form of these extremists of the right, has already divided the Church to the point that the question must be asked: what does *communion* really mean in these circumstances?Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.com