tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post5919877452192281948..comments2024-03-22T11:37:52.668-05:00Comments on Byzantine, Texas: Grand event at St. Sava Serbian Church in San Gabriel, CAByzantine, TXhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-88900232209961210952019-09-08T16:27:24.622-05:002019-09-08T16:27:24.622-05:00Hopefully that will be the case. I'm sure at s...Hopefully that will be the case. I'm sure at some point in the future there will be a generational shift in the hierarchy of the EP, and things will get worked out between the EP and MP. Hopefully with the Ukrainian schismatics being brought into the church in a proper manner.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06277889467316537183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-22508727817423794492019-09-05T03:52:54.510-05:002019-09-05T03:52:54.510-05:00Stars and garters, is that a ROCOR bishop ignoring...Stars and garters, is that a ROCOR bishop ignoring the incredibly strict break in communion between Constantinople and Moscow?!? It's almost as though all of this is politics and will get smoothed over sooner or later just like the Balkan autocephalies of the 1800s...Jon Marchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17906335382429497204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-6867575248450962732019-09-04T09:22:30.595-05:002019-09-04T09:22:30.595-05:00Ah the pissing contest that is the hierarchy. What...Ah the pissing contest that is the hierarchy. What’s most important is who will sit at the right and left hand. Mark 10:37 to 50Jacob Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12057383081686587516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-16863016331811696422019-09-03T17:41:49.809-05:002019-09-03T17:41:49.809-05:00As a matter of clarification, and avoidance of sp...As a matter of clarification, and avoidance of speculation. It was planned that Patriarch Irinej of Serbia was supposed to be the main celebrant, as would be to be expected, had his Holiness been here in California. As Byztex has reported elsewhere he is ill. On Saturday August 31 (NS) Metropolitan Joseph of the AOCA was the main celebrant. In addition to a large number of Serbian bishops, also concelebrating were: Metropolitan Nicholae of the Romanian Patriarchal Metropolia in America; Met. Savvas of Pittsburgh of the GOA; Archbishop Benjamin of San Francisco and Bishop Daniel of Santa Rosa of the OCA Diocese of the West; Archbishop Peter of Chicago (ROCOR). Each hierarch was greeted by title and gave his blessing during “O Lord save the pious...”. Patriarch John of Antioch, Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, Pat Kyrill of Moscow, and Metropolitan Tikhon of Washington (OCA) were all commemorated at “Among the first...”. I was blessed to be concelebrating myself, and saw it and it can be seen in the video.<br /><br />I understood that Abp Elpidephoros of the GOA was to be the main celebrant on Sunday Sep. 1st. I do not know which other hierarchs also served on Sunday, but I understood Abp Benjamin was to celebrate at his own cathedral in Los Angeles that day.<br /><br />I am sorry to bother Jake with these. The rites of Diptychs and concelebration express our self understanding of the Church. The nature of the Church and her self understanding is very important and effects everyone in the Church. What I understand to be happening is that “smaller churches” like Serbia, Cyprus, Albania etc are holding up opportunities for showing the unity of the Church and and possibilities of resolution. <br /><br />We have to be clear on our understanding of the Church and of our selves as Christians in the Church, living members of the Body of Christ and Temple of the Holy Spirit, and closely united one to another in Christ regardless of membership of this or that patriarchate, autocephalous body or ethnic group. Fr. Yousufhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06430669853591411729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-58410445345389224332019-09-03T13:10:37.938-05:002019-09-03T13:10:37.938-05:00I see that on the final day, the Greek Archbishop ...I see that on the final day, the Greek Archbishop did preside and no ROCOR Hierarchs in sight. Back in the day, when all of North America was part of the Russian mission, the Serbs and Greeks were glad for our support. <br /> Now, to quote Don Corleone, they found paradise in America, and don't need a friend like us. It was ok for the Tsar to send troops to the Balkans to help those folks against the Turks. Oh well. A Serbian priest once told me that the Serbs are masters of playing the East against the West.BorisJojicjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02796218761394313699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-10595975214465179992019-09-03T11:53:54.666-05:002019-09-03T11:53:54.666-05:00I think by "You" you mean myself. No, I...I think by "You" you mean myself. No, I don't agree with the EP's current interpretative judgement of his role "canonically" , historically, nor how it actually plays out in the modern circumstances of the (Orthodox) Church in a world where the Empire fell, east-west split happened, nation states arose, secular and "pluralistic" culture became dominant, etc. etc.<br /><br />That's why EP "mother church" this and Uniate history that (Ukrainian or otherwise) is just two sides of the same anachronistic coin - so much inside baseball. It's tinkering at the edges of a ecclesiology conceived in and for another world. <br /><br />Wake me up when we as Church gets to the substantive issues...Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-25862243129265269912019-09-03T11:43:54.864-05:002019-09-03T11:43:54.864-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.BorisJojicjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02796218761394313699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-53117006785491282222019-09-03T11:33:31.219-05:002019-09-03T11:33:31.219-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.BorisJojicjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02796218761394313699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-74000112970649291372019-09-03T11:13:58.054-05:002019-09-03T11:13:58.054-05:00Boris,
As a Ukrainian, surely you understand bett...Boris,<br /><br />As a Ukrainian, surely you understand better than most that 'its the Ukrainian Catholic's fault' is a simplistic reduction of history (cultural and Church). As an experienced Orthodox Christian, surely you understand that the EP's interpretation and actions reduced to "papal pretensions", or "puppet of the American State Dept.", or "yet another chapter of MP vs. EP" are simplistic reductions as well.<br /><br />In any case, this is all inside baseball. For those of us in NA and other western states, it has no real bearing on our salvation or being the Church in our secular cultures. These "metropolitans" and "Patriarchs" are emphasizing the unimportant, and ignoring the important...Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-17571511208250042412019-09-03T10:34:03.903-05:002019-09-03T10:34:03.903-05:00Archbishop Peter of ROCOR definitely was there and...Archbishop Peter of ROCOR definitely was there and did serve. It's in the video. And did you not read what was written above? For a second, I did think the presiding bishop was retired OCA Metropolitan Theodosius. But I know his age and failing health would have precluded him from attending, let alone presiding.BorisJojicjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02796218761394313699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-66749824106966202762019-09-03T10:29:38.012-05:002019-09-03T10:29:38.012-05:00Well, I'm sorry, Jake, but if Patriarch Bartho...Well, I'm sorry, Jake, but if Patriarch Bartholomew hadn't interfered in Ukraine, things might be different. There are those posting here who defend his All-Holiness's papal pretensions. I'm not one of them. I've heard official Ukrainian line, that +Bartholomew is finally standing up to the Russians. The truth is the Russian church is finally standing up on it's own. It's not held captive to an anti-Christian regime as it was in 1970, when it granted autocephaly to the OCA.<br /> But there's a funny twist to that story. Fr. Alexander Schmemann,along with some other prominent clergy of the then Russian Metropolia, approached Patriarch Athenagoras to intervene in their canonical status. The Patriarch said, "You are Russians. You must normalize your relationship with your mother church." When they did just that, and the mother church granted autocephaly, all he'll broke loose. <br /> Likewise for years, we in ROCOR were told," You're outside the church because you aren't in communion with anybody(actually not true, we were in communion with Serbia and Jerusalem the whole time)." So, we normalize relations with a Moscow Patriarchate, which is reviving church life in Russia. I cannot help it that the Ukrainian diaspora is chagrined, because they follow the lead of the Ukrainian Catholics, who make up maybe 12% of Ukraine's population. They have no use for a Ukrainian moderate like me, because I won't jump on the hate Russia bandwagon.BorisJojicjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02796218761394313699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-14387585388552039012019-09-03T10:04:53.971-05:002019-09-03T10:04:53.971-05:00When you good folks get done analyzing the tea lea...When you good folks get done analyzing the tea leaves of hierarchical standing vis-a-vis presiding when/where, and what this means/signals on this or that controversy, will you sum it up for me? ;)Jakehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16152024447008244670noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-73402754807344164792019-09-03T09:56:16.557-05:002019-09-03T09:56:16.557-05:00It was the Antiochian Metropolitan Joseph who was ...It was the Antiochian Metropolitan Joseph who was presiding.BorisJojicjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02796218761394313699noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-5670835148220273332019-09-03T09:11:53.570-05:002019-09-03T09:11:53.570-05:00The Divine Liturgy had Abp. Elpidophoros presiding...The Divine Liturgy had Abp. Elpidophoros presiding. There were no ROCOR hierarchs present. <br />Can someone please explain to me why the ‘gerond’ of GOARCH was presiding at the Serbian Cathedral where the 800th anniversary - which number is not recognized by the Fener or its appanages - of Serbian Autocephaly was being celebrated? Does this mean that the Phanariot hierarch who was recently appointed (in abrogation of GOARCH constitution) to rule Greek churches in America now recognizes the Serbian reckoning, or that he presides over Serbian churches in America? The message is very confusing. <br />I know that Serbian Patriarch Irenej was scheduled to preside but stayed home sick since his recent birthday, and that Irenej does not want to concelebrate with any of Elpidophoros’ ilk. He is painfully aware the new Phanar hierarch is the author and architect of Ukraine’s uncanonical Assembly. VanOldenPhatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01397386244607513016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-4153897229969069652019-09-03T07:23:47.300-05:002019-09-03T07:23:47.300-05:00For the sake of clarity: EP and ROCOR bishops are ...For the sake of clarity: EP and ROCOR bishops are attending services together just not with any regularity. Byzantine, TXhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-81426197726920511562019-09-03T07:16:27.810-05:002019-09-03T07:16:27.810-05:00Note that not one EP hierarch participated. I'...Note that not one EP hierarch participated. I'm certain that Archbishop Peter of ROCOR would not have served with EP hierarchs. It's also known that the Serbian church supports the canonical church in Ukraine.BorisJojicjhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02796218761394313699noreply@blogger.com