tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post6940182530028957695..comments2024-03-22T11:37:52.668-05:00Comments on Byzantine, Texas: EP speaks to "offensive statements" made about OCU tomosByzantine, TXhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17845681957622343484noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-39528006272039467372019-07-19T02:22:13.123-05:002019-07-19T02:22:13.123-05:00It's not about who is "justified." ...It's not about who is "justified." All of these “justifications” will ring hollow before the Judgement Seat. Reconciliation and Healing does not come in the language of "I'm right, you're wrong." Indeed, all we can do is pray for one another. Reconciliation comes in different forms. May a truly united Ukrainian Church be a reality, in a spirit of healing and forgiveness, not triumphalism or submission (in either direction). May the EP and MP do the same.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-49798757103972033302019-07-18T22:31:10.251-05:002019-07-18T22:31:10.251-05:00At least we can agree on that. The best thing we c...At least we can agree on that. The best thing we can do is pray. Pray for me friend, as I will pray for you. I think the response that the holy synod of the Russian church's response to the actions of the EP was justified, and I believe that the EP's actions are not. I think we are destined to repeat the same argument over and over until the end of time considering we have such fundamentally opposed points of contention here. I dont really think this is a political issue, as it is a crisis in our consensus on what ecclesiology means that has been going on since the day the church was founded. Ultimately, as my spiritual father says, the current situation is something that has been going on for ages, that being the argument over who leads the church and who gets power. The Roman Catholics had this discussion with us in 1054, and now were having it with the Patriarchate of Constantinople. Nothing new. Pray for me, pray for our bishops, and pray for all those who have fallen outside of the Canonical Ukranian Orthodox Church under Metropolitan Onufry! Pray for me as well, as I am a wretched pompous sinner.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06277889467316537183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-78898634329837126882019-07-18T18:24:36.245-05:002019-07-18T18:24:36.245-05:00Randy,
9 paragraphs is a bit long for me.
It is ...Randy,<br /><br />9 paragraphs is a bit long for me.<br /><br />It is propaganda, Randy. But guess what? The "EP side" produces propaganda too. This is a POLITICAL argument, masquerading as Canonical concern. This is just the latest chapter in the long bitter conflict between the MP and the EP, an ugly hangover from the mess of the 20th Century.<br /><br />As for me, I pray for both Metropolitan Onuphry and Epiphany. For ALL Orthodox in Ukraine, no matter who their Bishop is. Whatever you think of what the EP has done, it doesn't excuse Moscow's response, either.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-39571629386478776762019-07-18T12:07:28.610-05:002019-07-18T12:07:28.610-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06277889467316537183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-53900430580595365662019-07-18T02:03:51.014-05:002019-07-18T02:03:51.014-05:00http://orthochristian.com/122143.html
You mean th...http://orthochristian.com/122143.html<br /><br />You mean this garbage article? The photoshop of HAH looking sinister is a “nice touch.” They link to the Union of Orthodox Journalists and Vesti Ukraine. You might as well just throw RT and Pravda at me for “the scoop.” Forgive me if I remain skeptical.<br /><br />Of course if you have another source to link to, I’d be happy to take a look.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-10156534489631398602019-07-18T00:57:15.236-05:002019-07-18T00:57:15.236-05:00Many "priests" in the OCU have spoken ou...Many "priests" in the OCU have spoken out about the Constantinopolitan exarchs in Ukraine demanding a "tax" or "payment" to them. I could link you an article about it if you'd like. Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06277889467316537183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-9248336400010212442019-07-17T20:20:43.535-05:002019-07-17T20:20:43.535-05:00Where is this evidence? All I have seen are ugly ...Where is this evidence? All I have seen are ugly insinuations. But it's a time honored propaganda tactic: Repeat the lie long enough and consistently enough, and people will start to believe it. David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-30415621415535031552019-07-17T20:16:31.186-05:002019-07-17T20:16:31.186-05:00I am naive about nothing. There are political pe...I am naive about nothing. There are political people EVERYWHERE, even in our Patriarchates. One could insinuate all kinds of garbage about the MP as well, but how about we just clear the air right now. The EP is not a CIA asset. The MP is not an FSB asset. Vladimir Putin does not control the Russian Church. The US State Department does not control the Church of Constantinople.<br /><br />Is the Church of Greece autocephalous?David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-52110619851102172432019-07-17T13:06:08.263-05:002019-07-17T13:06:08.263-05:00David, you're quite naïve about the inner work...David, you're quite naïve about the inner workings of the Phanar and mixing realities (such as recognition of sainthood, the reception of Holy Chrism, etc.)<br /><br />If you read the tomos carefully, Ukraine has not received any autocephaly at all. Caradochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211870051168996516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-77362602447839816192019-07-17T10:41:48.754-05:002019-07-17T10:41:48.754-05:00In my opinion the EP has definitely been demanding...In my opinion the EP has definitely been demanding money for their "tomos" in Ukraine. An unfortunate circumstance, but one that exists and is evidenced by past behavior well enough.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06277889467316537183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-62359079676399659522019-07-17T10:39:42.761-05:002019-07-17T10:39:42.761-05:00Even back then there was plenty of confusion. Not ...Even back then there was plenty of confusion. Not only were many bishops self avowed arians, there were also weirdos who were semi-arians and pseudo-arians who mashed together elements of trinitarian and arian theology into some weird amalgam of the two. Many emperors did this as well. Not to even mention when the "council" of Florence" came about. The church will win out!Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06277889467316537183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-15936895322111378932019-07-17T07:49:19.466-05:002019-07-17T07:49:19.466-05:00I miss the old days when we knew who to hate: Aria...I miss the old days when we knew who to hate: Arians, gnostics, latins. I wish we could just skip the bickering and jump to the part where I know for sure who I'm supposed to hate now. Dmitri Karamazovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03525305770517249043noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-32753484292904019642019-07-17T00:13:20.710-05:002019-07-17T00:13:20.710-05:00As for the article, the MP partisans on the intern...As for the article, the MP partisans on the internet have been relentless in their attacks against the EP that go well beyond the charitable and measured dissent of Antioch or Albania. Insinuations of Bribes, and throwing in NATO/CIA/US State Department/the Vatican/Freemasonry and whatever other nastiness they throw against the wall to see what sticks. It is ugly and vicious. The attacks against the Tomos issued by the EP are unfair, considering that several local Churches receive their Chrism from Constantinople AND even canonize their saints through the EP. The "standard" Tomos issued by the EP over the centuries have been similiar to the OCU's (of course that doesn't mean they remain so. A few Churches fought for the right to make their own Chrism and "amend" the Tomos they were given). It isn't a static process.<br /><br />None of the MP’s “advocates” have answered this fundamental question: How does sowing more division help the people in Ukraine?David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-11035386851135544912019-07-16T23:41:44.978-05:002019-07-16T23:41:44.978-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-70021789651011868912019-07-16T23:35:39.014-05:002019-07-16T23:35:39.014-05:00St. Luke was not on the official calendar of the E...St. Luke was not on the official calendar of the Ecumenical Patriarchate before, and now he is. It doesn't mean that they don't recognize his sainthood, it just now means that he is "officially" commemorated in the Church of Constantinople. It isn't unusual: My own saint, David of Evia is not on the Russian calendar to my knowledge (nor is St. Iakovos, his 20th century disciple and recently glorified in his own right). It doesn't mean the Moscow Patriarchate doesn't recognize their sanctity: I'm sure Russian visitors to Evia have venerated the relics.David B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/12585542870280397211noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-29054320628415947912019-07-16T21:16:40.813-05:002019-07-16T21:16:40.813-05:00This rhetoric is not evening worth commenting on. ...This rhetoric is not evening worth commenting on. Sadly, the Ecumenical Patriarchate is dying on the vine. It's just a matter of time before the branch completely withers & falls off and/or is pruned off.Timmyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06833797224685670708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-20001235425246769962019-07-16T19:22:15.469-05:002019-07-16T19:22:15.469-05:00This would almost be laughable if it weren't s...This would almost be laughable if it weren't so tragic. I think that the "fake news" they cite in this article is boomeranging back to their own news dissemination.<br />We need to all pray very sincerely for the healing within the Church at large and hope that sooner or later (before it's too late) a real council will be convened to resolve this ugly situation. The Gospel is not being preached at this point by these hierarchs, it is all self posturing and self aggrandizement, the EP included.<br />Kyrie eleison!Kodratoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03231058229402812127noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-67812037383299273302019-07-16T18:52:55.785-05:002019-07-16T18:52:55.785-05:00It's called "Double-think". Or cogn...It's called "Double-think". Or cognitive dissonance.Caradochttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03211870051168996516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-22170361554000147502019-07-16T17:33:06.132-05:002019-07-16T17:33:06.132-05:00The canonization thing with st. Luke of Crimea is ...The canonization thing with st. Luke of Crimea is so bizzar. Does this mean that the EP doesn't recognize the legitimacy of the UOC-MP even before the so-called "unification council" or, more frighteningly, the legitimacy of the Moscow Patriarchate itself, at least insofar that it can canonize saints? Every day it gets wilder and more scandalous in the upper echelons of the EP. This behavior can't be sustained for much longer.Randyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06277889467316537183noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-73042886598650075.post-88717677084280859062019-07-16T17:19:09.717-05:002019-07-16T17:19:09.717-05:00"From that day on, the new Autocephalous Orth..."From that day on, the new Autocephalous Orthodox Church of Ukraine is completely self-sufficient and has the absolute freedom to manage its internal affairs through the judgment and decisions of its Holy Synod."<br /><br />Which is why, just this week, Patriarch Bartholomew gave the OCU permission to canonize Saint Luke of Crimea, who by the way is already canonized in the UOC, the Moscow Patriarchate in general, and there are churches built in his honor in Cyprus (and even Greece if I remember correctly). But my point is, the OCU has absolute freedom to manage internal affairs like deciding who to canonize or for that matter making their own chrism...oh wait nope. Or dealing with their own internal schisms...Matvey Casshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14121365910878071505noreply@blogger.com