One hopes this process will go more smoothly than the ROCOR Western Rite enterprise has gone. I expect once these parishes make it into the Assembly of Bishops website's parish listing that there will be some surprised visitors.
(ROCOR-EAD) - Over the past several months, the leader of an independent church movement called the "Catholic Church of the East," the former Archbishop Ramzi Mussalam, has begun a remarkable transition: to bring his entire movement, of over 60 parishes, into the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR). The former archbishop was received into the Orthodox Church and ordained a deacon and priest with the encouragement and blessing and by the hand of Metropolitan Hilarion, ROCOR’s First Hierarch. The former archbishop is now Hieromonk Elias. Father Elias grew up in the Scranton area of Pennsylvania as a communicant of the Polish National Catholic Church, in which he was ordained to the priesthood.
The process of Orthodox catechization has now commenced, with the gradual reception of the former clergy and faithful of the "Catholic Church of the East" into Orthodoxy, with their regularization within the canonical embrace of the Orthodox Church. It is expected that this will be a long and complex process but one of that will bear an abundant spiritual harvest. A number of parishes have already been received: St. Irene Church in Pittston, PA; St. Ann Church in Pottsville, PA and St. Mark Church in Milford, CT.
Let us welcome these people with joy and do all that we can to help them integrate into the Orthodox community. Let us give thanks to God that He has led Fr. Elias and his faithful people into Orthodoxy.
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Will they be a western rite, or Eastern?
ReplyDeleteThey are decidedly western now, but I don't know what their future holds.
DeleteUp to now this group "Catholic Church of the East" has been very Latin , very western. (also in the not too distant past , very charismatic, with links to groups like the "Charismatic Episcopal Church") The news stories that broke around mid-January all show the leader of the group in a very western-style building (in fact a former RC parish , St. Rocco in Pittson, PA ... now called St. Irene , ROCOR) , but it has been mentioned that they will be changing to Eastern Rite. Just one more very odd aspect of an already very odd story.
DeleteAt first sounded like Nestorians but turned out to be more traditional Old Catholic/Union of Scranton. Leader may be formed Chaldean or Maronite. Interesting development. They seem to be set up as a Western Rite group. Would bet New Calendar, but great to see them entering Orthodoxy. Hopefully they are gentlely led and this is permanent.
ReplyDeleteLet's see if the Nordic Catholic Church is to follow.
For example these news stories:
Deletehttp://www.pahomepage.com/news/historic-church-reopens-in-pittston
http://timesleader.com/news/503281/st-roccos-church-in-pittston-reopens-as-st-irene-russian-orthodox-outside-church-of-russia
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ReplyDeleteI've got a bad feeling about this. Received and now the catechism begins? I'm still scandalized by the last ROCOR reception of vagante groups in the US. Here is a link to a rather lengthy discussion on this fake church that hopefully hasn't duped the Church Abroad.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/414849/1
Linked to PNCC which is a respectable outfit. Just hope this isn't a prelude to instant autonomy or self declared autocephaly.
ReplyDeleteR Michael Warren - "Linked to the PNCC" ... only in that he was originally ordained in the PNCC and then deposed by the PNCC.
ReplyDeleteHow is this reception, or especially the so-called "Western Rite" project, any different than the Unia? It is not. These groups worship in the Western Rite, according to a Western Calendar, venerate Western Saints, follow Western Spiritual Traditions. They are "located in historically [Catholic] territory", and "are in the canonical jurisdiction of [Catholic] Bishops" sound familiar? This makes sense if you believe that the Orthodox Church is the only true manifestation of Christ's Church on Earth, and that Catholic sacraments are not valid. Fine that the Russian Church asserts this, kudos for honesty about their beliefs. But for them to them to be engaging in these projects, while simultaneously getting all breathless and frantic condemning the Unia? The hypocrisy shocks the conscience.
ReplyDeleteThere is not a difference Sheldon. You are spot on.
DeleteThere is every difference, by the simple fact that Jesuits didn't lynch Orthodox Priests and Orthodox faithful to bring it about nor will it be implemented by the totalitarian architecture of the Counter Reformation to force submission to the Chair of Peter. Moreover, no religious counterfeits here. Seeing as how these groups don't use the low church Protestant novus ordo mass.
DeleteAside from that, Orthodoxy is the True Church. The papacy is a fallen see. Don't believe me. Go read St. Vincent of Lerins.
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DeleteDifference between Western Rite and Unia is Western Rite isn't established by lynchings and Jesuit counter reformations, doesn't insist on submissions to heretical popes, people have a choice to worship or not and in Orthodoxy real autonomy and autocephaly exist.
ReplyDeleteBesides the rites Western riters use aren't the low church Protestant nonsense of Vatican II. And Rome recognizes such bodies as the PNCC as legitimate and independent: no one is stealing papal parishes here or intruding on papal territory. Scranton is not papal.
ROCOR is regularizing this fellow and he is acting in humility, demoted. I am heartened that the Union of Scranton does exist and helps bodies which are traditional get their business in order to either dialogue with or enter Orthodoxy.
R. Michael Warren - again, let's be perfectly clear about what is happening here: Ramzi Musallam is NOT coming into ROCOR directly from the PNCC . He was deposed by the PNCC and has been operating a phony Catholic group that he started called "The Arabic Catholic Church" aka "The Catholic Church of the East" since around 2008/2009. (RC Diocese of Scanton and RC Diocese of Pittsburgh and Diocese of Cleveland have issued warnings about this "Catholic Church of the East/Arabic Catholic Church" group before). For reasons known only to the hierarchy of ROCOR, they have now given their stamp of approval to this rather notorious 'episcopus vagans' as a priest (and notice that his followers on his Facebook page are already clamoring for him to be made a bishop ! And he doesn't post anything in response to discourage them in this clamoring ... ), when in fact "regularizing" him by any standard of Orthodoxy would likely have included having him spend a quiet year or two as a novice in a monastery to learn about the Orthodox faith or at least as a lay catechumen in a parish (then perhaps attending an Orthodox seminary) before being ordained as a priest.
Deletehttp://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/360599/1/%22Arabic_Catholic_Church_o
Well, then every Protestant received by the Antiochians should have lived under monastic discipline, but, wait there are no monasteries in the Antiochian Archdiocese.
DeleteI despise ROCOR, but that being said, he is being received as a layman and agreeing to obedience and Orthodox formation. He isn't being received as a vagante bishop. He was received as a layman then ordained as a Deacon then a Priest. I am all for the entry of all members of the Union of Scranton into Orthodoxy as Orthodox exarchates, but for right now they are in a continuing Old Catholic gray area. But they are the most promising partners in dialogue out there. If groups sidestep them and directly convert, there is no issue. If this group is gaming ROCOR, we will soon find out. But for right now, everything seems to be in order.
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DeleteHe was dismissed and suspended from the Polish National Catholic Church. To keep saying he and his group are somehow Old Catholics or part of the Union of Scranton is a falsehood. He may have been at one time but he certainly is not now. Also, given ROCOR'S history with Old Catholics and vagantes of the recent past, I would have grave reservations about any group pretending to be a church coming to Orthodoxy.
DeleteThe point was it doesn't matter because of the fact that continuing Old Catholicism either in the Union of Scranton or amongst Independents has the same Old Calendarest-esque history of anathemas, depositions and lawsuits. And, for the last time, the man was not received as a cleric but as a layman, being ordained in the Orthodox Church, which has as yet to accept Old Catholic orders.
ReplyDeleteAgain, I despise ROCOR, and they will realize if they are being gamed. If they don't then they will get what they deserve.
In an ideal world, all traditional Independent Catholics (and Anglicans/liturgical Protestants of that ilk) would be members of the Union of Scranton, being the first members in dialogue with Orthodoxy. They are not. The Union of Scranton is in nascent stages. A few traditional, independent groups exist. There is no impediment to receiving them as laymen and forming them in Orthodoxy, even if they were or had been members of the Union of Scranton.
No one is claiming that he was as a cleric. We object that this fraud of an Archbishop now has legitimate apostolic orders. Why not send him to an Orthodox seminary? Or have him live as a laymen or monk for a period of time to test the sincerity of his conversion? Why the rust to ordain him a deacon and then a priest. Did they learn nothing from the last time they did this.
ReplyDeleteI don't answer for them. They feel accountable for souls is what I suspect their official answer would be.
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ReplyDeleteR Michael Warren, you stated that these Western Riters accepted by ROCOR do not use the "low church Protestant nonsense of Vatican II", however, it looks like what the new priest has on his website is precisely that - his version of the VC2 Liturgy, and an old outdated 'bad' translation, at that: http://www.catholicchurchoftheeast.org/Holy-Mass-in-English.html
ReplyDeleteNot only that, he seems to have his own independent divorce/annulment tribunal - does the MP or ROCOR accept his decisions?
Notice that ROCOR has now taken this down from their website...
ReplyDeleteFirstly, ROCOR WR does not approve use of that LOW CHURCH METHODIST DIVINE SERVICE, AKA Novus Ordo, not facing the people like a Vegas magician, and not facing the altar. Neither is it part of the AWRV. So, no, that Protestant low mass is not going to be in the Orthodox Church. It is hoped papists will respect themselves enough, get over the 1960s, grow up, and find a more catholic form of worship if they ever wish to reenter the Orthodox Catholic Church. Even the reformed Maronite mass is better.
ReplyDeleteThe Mother Church does accept Rome's annulments and marriages. ROCOR has its on again, off again, on again positions on this. By economy I guess, but personally I would provide the option for Orthodox Mysteries to be observed as sacraments outside the Church are graceless and empty while Blessed Augustine's ex post facto mysteriology is problematic to say the least.
I don't answer for ROCOR and seldom visit their sites. The Pravoslavie English site still has this up. I would suspect the ROCOR WR sure does as well.
What I find amusing is that so many heterodox have some sort of interest in shooting this down. Orthodoxy growing seems to be a threat. Some fear critical mass turning into a movement. I pray for it.
For the record, outside of entry into Orthodoxy, I hold with the Holy Fathers and the Holy Canons expressing the Mind of CHRIST, that there can be no Communion with the Orthodox Church without Baptism in the Church, either through direct Baptism or through the Augustinian notion of economy that heretical rites are visited with Grace when one converts and enters the Church. I do believe in liturgical accomodations and churching people in their various cultural traditions in freedom, not in Jesuit submission by crimes against humanity, to a heretical pope in Rome.
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