It's so long and wide-reaching you can see why they were still editing the below document up to the day before the face-to-face meeting.
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(MOSPAT-USA) - "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God the Father and the fellowship of the holy Spirit be with all of you” (2 Cor 13:13).
1. By God the Father’s will, from which all gifts come, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the help of the Holy Spirit Consolator, we, Pope Francis and Kirill, Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, have met today in Havana. We give thanks to God, glorified in the Trinity, for this meeting, the first in history.
It is with joy that we have met like brothers in the Christian faith who encounter one another "to speak face to face” (2 Jn 12), from heart to heart, to discuss the mutual relations between the Churches, the crucial problems of our faithful, and the outlook for the progress of human civilization.
2. Our fraternal meeting has taken place in Cuba, at the crossroads of North and South, East and West. It is from this island, the symbol of the hopes of the "New World” and the dramatic events of the history of the twentieth century, that we address our words to all the peoples of Latin America and of the other continents.
It is a source of joy that the Christian faith is growing here in a dynamic way. The powerful religious potential of Latin America, its centuries–old Christian tradition, grounded in the personal experience of millions of people, are the pledge of a great future for this region.
3. By meeting far from the longstanding disputes of the "Old World”, we experience with a particular sense of urgency the need for the shared labour of Catholics and Orthodox, who are called, with gentleness and respect, to give an explanation to the world of the hope in us (cf. 1 Pet 3:15).
4. We thank God for the gifts received from the coming into the world of His only Son. We share the same spiritual Tradition of the first millennium of Christianity. The witnesses of this Tradition are the Most Holy Mother of God, the Virgin Mary, and the saints we venerate. Among them are innumerable martyrs who have given witness to their faithfulness to Christ and have become the "seed of Christians”.
5. Notwithstanding this shared Tradition of the first ten centuries, for nearly one thousand years Catholics and Orthodox have been deprived of communion in the Eucharist. We have been divided by wounds caused by old and recent conflicts, by differences inherited from our ancestors, in the understanding and expression of our faith in God, one in three Persons – Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We are pained by the loss of unity, the outcome of human weakness and of sin, which has occurred despite the priestly prayer of Christ the Saviour: "So that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you ... so that they may be one, as we are one” (Jn 17:21).
6. Mindful of the permanence of many obstacles, it is our hope that our meeting may contribute to the re–establishment of this unity willed by God, for which Christ prayed. May our meeting inspire Christians throughout the world to pray to the Lord with renewed fervour for the full unity of all His disciples. In a world which yearns not only for our words but also for tangible gestures, may this meeting be a sign of hope for all people of goodwill!
7. In our determination to undertake all that is necessary to overcome the historical divergences we have inherited, we wish to combine our efforts to give witness to the Gospel of Christ and to the shared heritage of the Church of the first millennium, responding together to the challenges of the contemporary world. Orthodox and Catholics must learn to give unanimously witness in those spheres in which this is possible and necessary. Human civilization has entered into a period of epochal change. Our Christian conscience and our pastoral responsibility compel us not to remain passive in the face of challenges requiring a shared response.
8. Our gaze must firstly turn to those regions of the world where Christians are victims of persecution. In many countries of the Middle East and North Africa whole families, villages and cities of our brothers and sisters in Christ are being completely exterminated. Their churches are being barbarously ravaged and looted, their sacred objects profaned, their monuments destroyed. It is with pain that we call to mind the situation in Syria, Iraq and other countries of the Middle East, and the massive exodus of Christians from the land in which our faith was first disseminated and in which they have lived since the time of the Apostles, together with other religious communities.
9. We call upon the international community to act urgently in order to prevent the further expulsion of Christians from the Middle East. In raising our voice in defence of persecuted Christians, we wish to express our compassion for the suffering experienced by the faithful of other religious traditions who have also become victims of civil war, chaos and terrorist violence.
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10. Thousands of victims have already been claimed in the violence in Syria and Iraq, which has left many other millions without a home or means of sustenance. We urge the international community to seek an end to the violence and terrorism and, at the same time, to contribute through dialogue to a swift return to civil peace. Large–scale humanitarian aid must be assured to the afflicted populations and to the many refugees seeking safety in neighbouring lands.
We call upon all those whose influence can be brought to bear upon the destiny of those kidnapped, including the Metropolitans of Aleppo, Paul and John Ibrahim, who were taken in April 2013, to make every effort to ensure their prompt liberation.
11. We lift our prayers to Christ, the Saviour of the world, asking for the return of peace in the Middle East, "the fruit of justice” (Is 32:17), so that fraternal co–existence among the various populations, Churches and religions may be strengthened, enabling refugees to return to their homes, wounds to be healed, and the souls of the slain innocent to rest in peace.
We address, in a fervent appeal, all the parts that may be involved in the conflicts to demonstrate good will and to take part in the negotiating table. At the same time, the international community must undertake every possible effort to end terrorism through common, joint and coordinated action. We call on all the countries involved in the struggle against terrorism to responsible and prudent action. We exhort all Christians and all believers of God to pray fervently to the providential Creator of the world to protect His creation from destruction and not permit a new world war. In order to ensure a solid and enduring peace, specific efforts must be undertaken to rediscover the common values uniting us, based on the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
12. We bow before the martyrdom of those who, at the cost of their own lives, have given witness to the truth of the Gospel, preferring death to the denial of Christ. We believe that these martyrs of our times, who belong to various Churches but who are united by their shared suffering, are a pledge of the unity of Christians. It is to you who suffer for Christ’s sake that the word of the Apostle is directed: "Beloved ... rejoice to the extent that you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that when his glory is revealed you may also rejoice exultantly” (1 Pet 4:12–13).
13. Interreligious dialogue is indispensable in our disturbing times. Differences in the understanding of religious truths must not impede people of different faiths to live in peace and harmony. In our current context, religious leaders have the particular responsibility to educate their faithful in a spirit which is respectful of the convictions of those belonging to other religious traditions. Attempts to justify criminal acts with religious slogans are altogether unacceptable. No crime may be committed in God’s name, "since God is not the God of disorder but of peace” (1 Cor 14:33).
14. In affirming the foremost value of religious freedom, we give thanks to God for the current unprecedented renewal of the Christian faith in Russia, as well as in many other countries of Eastern Europe, formerly dominated for decades by atheist regimes. Today, the chains of militant atheism have been broken and in many places Christians can now freely confess their faith.
Thousands of new churches have been built over the last quarter of a century, as well as hundreds of monasteries and theological institutions. Christian communities undertake notable works in the fields of charitable aid and social development, providing diversified forms of assistance to the needy. Orthodox and Catholics often work side by side. Giving witness to the values of the Gospel they attest to the existence of the shared spiritual foundations of human co–existence.
15. At the same time, we are concerned about the situation in many countries in which Christians are increasingly confronted by restrictions to religious freedom, to the right to witness to one’s convictions and to live in conformity with them. In particular, we observe that the transformation of some countries into secularized societies, estranged from all reference to God and to His truth, constitutes a grave threat to religious freedom. It is a source of concern for us that there is a current curtailment of the rights of Christians, if not their outright discrimination, when certain political forces, guided by an often very aggressive secularist ideology, seek to relegate them to the margins of public life.
16. The process of European integration, which began after centuries of blood–soaked conflicts, was welcomed by many with hope, as a guarantee of peace and security. Nonetheless, we invite vigilance against an integration that is devoid of respect for religious identities. While remaining open to the contribution of other religions to our civilization, it is our conviction that Europe must remain faithful to its Christian roots. We call upon Christians of Eastern and Western Europe to unite in their shared witness to Christ and the Gospel, so that Europe may preserve its soul, shaped by two thousand years of Christian tradition.
17. Our gaze is also directed to those facing serious difficulties, who live in extreme need and poverty while the material wealth of humanity increases. We cannot remain indifferent to the destinies of millions of migrants and refugees knocking on the doors of wealthy nations. The unrelenting consumerism of some more developed countries is gradually depleting the resources of our planet. The growing inequality in the distribution of material goods increases the feeling of the injustice of the international order that has emerged.
18. The Christian churches are called to defend the demands of justice, the respect for peoples’ traditions, and an authentic solidarity towards all those who suffer. We Christians cannot forget that "God chose the foolish of the world to shame the wise, and God chose the lowly and despised of the world, those who count for nothing, to reduce to nothing those who are something, that no human being might boast before God” (1 Cor 1:27–29).
19. The family is the natural centre of human life and society. We are concerned about the crisis in the family in many countries. Orthodox and Catholics share the same conception of the family, and are called to witness that it is a path of holiness, testifying to the faithfulness of the spouses in their mutual interaction, to their openness to the procreation and rearing of their children, to solidarity between the generations and to respect for the weakest.
20. The family is based on marriage, an act of freely given and faithful love between a man and a woman. It is love that seals their union and teaches them to accept one another as a gift. Marriage is a school of love and faithfulness. We regret that other forms of cohabitation have been placed on the same level as this union, while the concept, consecrated in the biblical tradition, of paternity and maternity as the distinct vocation of man and woman in marriage is being banished from the public conscience.
21. We call on all to respect the inalienable right to life. Millions are denied the very right to be born into the world. The blood of the unborn cries out to God (cf. Gen 4:10).The emergence of so-called euthanasia leads elderly people and the disabled begin to feel that they are a burden on their families and on society in general.
We are also concerned about the development of biomedical reproduction technology, as the manipulation of human life represents an attack on the foundations of human existence, created in the image of God. We believe that it is our duty to recall the immutability of Christian moral principles, based on respect for the dignity of the individual called into being according to the Creator’s plan.
22. Today, in a particular way, we address young Christians. You, young people, have the task of not hiding your talent in the ground (cf. Mt 25:25), but of using all the abilities God has given you to confirm Christ’s truth in the world, incarnating in your own lives the evangelical commandments of the love of God and of one’s neighbour. Do not be afraid of going against the current, defending God’s truth, to which contemporary secular norms are often far from conforming.
23. God loves each of you and expects you to be His disciples and apostles. Be the light of the world so that those around you may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father (cf. Mt 5:14, 16). Raise your children in the Christian faith, transmitting to them the pearl of great price that is the faith (cf. Mt 13:46) you have received from your parents and forbears. Remember that "you have been purchased at a great price” (1 Cor 6:20), at the cost of the death on the cross of the Man–God Jesus Christ.
24. Orthodox and Catholics are united not only by the shared Tradition of the Church of the first millennium, but also by the mission to preach the Gospel of Christ in the world today. This mission entails mutual respect for members of the Christian communities and excludes any form of proselytism.
We are not competitors but brothers, and this concept must guide all our mutual actions as well as those directed to the outside world. We urge Catholics and Orthodox in all countries to learn to live together in peace and love, and to be "in harmony with one another” (Rm 15:5).
Consequently, it cannot be accepted that disloyal means be used to incite believers to pass from one Church to another, denying them their religious freedom and their traditions. We are called upon to put into practice the precept of the apostle Paul: "Thus I aspire to proclaim the gospel not where Christ has already been named, so that I do not build on another's foundation” (Rm 15:20).
25. It is our hope that our meeting may also contribute to reconciliation wherever tensions exist between Greek Catholics and Orthodox. It is today clear that the past method of "uniatism”, understood as the union of one community to the other, separating it from its Church, is not the way to re–establish unity. Nonetheless, the ecclesial communities which emerged in these historical circumstances have the right to exist and to undertake all that is necessary to meet the spiritual needs of their faithful, while seeking to live in peace with their neighbours. Orthodox and Greek Catholics are in need of reconciliation and of mutually acceptable forms of co–existence.
26. We deplore the hostility in Ukraine that has already caused many victims, inflicted innumerable wounds on peaceful inhabitants and thrown society into a deep economic and humanitarian crisis. We invite all the parts involved in the conflict to prudence, to social solidarity and to action aimed at constructing peace. We invite our Churches in Ukraine to work towards social harmony, to refrain from taking part in the confrontation, and to not support any further development of the conflict.
27. It is our hope that the schism between the Orthodox faithful in Ukraine may be overcome through existing canonical norms, that all the Orthodox Christians of Ukraine may live in peace and harmony, and that the Catholic communities in the country may contribute to this, in such a way that our Christian brotherhood may become increasingly evident.
28. In the contemporary world, which is both multiform yet united by a shared destiny, Catholics and Orthodox are called to work together fraternally in proclaiming the Good News of salvation, to testify together to the moral dignity and authentic freedom of the person, "so that the world may believe” (Jn 17:21). This world, in which the spiritual pillars of human existence are progressively disappearing, awaits from us a compelling Christian witness in all spheres of personal and social life. Much of the future of humanity will depend on our capacity to give shared witness to the Spirit of truth in these difficult times.
29. May our bold witness to God’s truth and to the Good News of salvation be sustained by the Man–God Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour, who strengthens us with the unfailing promise: "Do not be afraid any longer, little flock, for your Father is pleased to give you the kingdom” (Lk 12:32)!
Christ is the well–spring of joy and hope. Faith in Him transfigures human life, fills it with meaning. This is the conviction borne of the experience of all those to whom Peter refers in his words: "Once you were ‘no people’ but now you are God’s people; you ‘had not received mercy’ but now you have received mercy” (1 Pet 2:10).
30. With grace–filled gratitude for the gift of mutual understanding manifested during our meeting, let us with hope turn to the Most Holy Mother of God, invoking her with the words of this ancient prayer: "We seek refuge under the protection of your mercy, Holy Mother of God”. May the Blessed Virgin Mary, through her intercession, inspire fraternity in all those who venerate her, so that they may be reunited, in God’s own time, in the peace and harmony of the one people of God, for the glory of the Most Holy and indivisible Trinity!
Francis
Bishop of Rome
Pope of the Catholic Church
Kirill
Patriarch of Moscow
and all Russia
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So the Vatican backs Putin in the Mideast, endorses his view in the global cultural war, says give us time on Unia and whispers we can do RUSSKY MIR for you. The Patriarch coyly says thanks for the check, hope to get more, and we will give you time to get your cash flow issues in order as you incrementally put your machinery in place to endorse Russia and RUSSKY MIR and we will allow you carefully worded propaganda to make sure your followers don't bolt so you can end up delivering the goods and have them listen to you: we know the type of people you have to deal with.
ReplyDeleteGuess it is clear who is desperate. That became apparent when the Vatican bank underwrote this PR stunt and begged for it.
Now for a Russian Orthodox sobering assessment offered to papists trying to spin this into anything but a negotiated papal capitulation:
The Unia has no right to exist and will be abolished. This is something which Patriarch Kirill will have as a primary concern brought to the attention of his primacy. The continued presence of the Unia is unacceptable and any compromise on this matter is a fundamental betrayal of Orthodoxy. Such a betrayal will not by allowed by the Russian Orthodox faithful.
Russian Orthodox Christians are dying today and being persecuted by the apostasy and religious counterfeit of Unia. Ukrainian BANDEROFASCISM is a papal, Uniate assault on All Russian Unity and a destabilizing, UNSUSTAINABLE MODEL GOING FORWARD. Until Unia and its banderofascist political ideology is totally liquidated, there will be no peace. There can be no coexistence between Orthodoxy and a religious counterfeit of it. The two are mutually exclusive.
Fidelity to Orthodoxy and to an Orthodox Rus' will outlive any given hierarch, political leader or churchmen. So no the Vatican can never buy Russian Orthodoxy. It can only repent and return to Orthodoxy to receive the acceptance of the Russian Orthodox people and their civilization.
The filth of Unia will end. There will be no compromise on this matter.
There will be no acceptance of heretical, ecumenist branch theory, ie two lungs ecclesiology either. And Istanbul for all practical purposes is irrelevant.
In respect of the conscience of believers, Orthodox Christians of Rus' will observe Orthodox rites. Papal Christians will observe papal rites. But Rus' by its very civilizational identity is an Orthodox Christian continuum. And Rus'will be reunited, freed of the scourge of divisive and ahistorical, quack "nationalities."
There is no room for compromise of Russian Orthodox civilization.
What a remarkable contrast between the beautiful tone of this declaration and this screed of a reply. God help us.
DeleteWhen a person refuses to face reality and truth for a comfortable and pleasant lie, the person commits spiritual suicide. Cult of the pope 101. Then there are people who take umbrage when we Orthodox, the authentic Catholics, recoil at your worship of the papacy.
DeleteUntil you all learn to appreciate Orthodoxy and what entry into the Orthodox Catholic Church for you will embody, the only thing you will have are the idols of your reflections in the pope's shadow. And your sun is setting. Respect yourselves. Repentance is key to your entry into the Catholic Church, Orthodoxy.
Yes, Mr. Warrens tone does more to hurt the cause of Orthodoxy. Sadly, many Orthodox express the same sentiment as he. Many years to Pope Francis and Patriarch Krill.
DeleteConversion to Orthodoxy does not entail Russian hegemony. Ethnophyletism is anathema, Mr Warren, and your comments err dangerously close to the sort of maniacal rhetoric than promotes ethnic cleansing and religious genocide. May God save and preserve the Russian land and her people, may the UGCC live in peace. Many years to Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill, Axios and Axios.
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ReplyDeleteI think that people who worship the idol of their own comfort and infallibility only find despair when the Truth unexpectedly finds them. Papists, the Truth is upon you and you have been the victims of a blasphemous, generational, papalist lie.
ReplyDeleteThe Unia is a non starter. It is dead. Those who wish to remain papal Christians will be such of papal rite. Those who want Orthodox rites will find them only in Orthodox churches. Only this validates the statement that "Unia as a model of papal aggression is defunct." Furthermore, notions that "unity with the Chair of Peter secures full ecclesiological validity" are unacceptable, Uniate propaganda. Nothing else but the liquidation of unia and the papal, heretical ecclesiology propagating it will be accepted. Unia and Ukrainian nationalism are dead. Any papist who seeks ANY relationship with Orthodoxy had better sober up and reject the filth of unia and begin asserting that Orthodoxy embodies the fulness of the Catholic Church in Faith, doctrine, life, Sacraments and fidelity.
Unia's past is a past of ethnic cleansing, genocide, crimes against humanity, open collaboration with Adolph Hitler, being one of the chief religious mouthpieces of SS propaganda and apology, even having having blessed concentration camp guards, mobile death wagons and concentration camp facilities. Today's Unia preaches ethnic cleansing, the rehabilitation of NAZI Germany, denies the Holocaust, perpetrates pogroms and crimes against humanity against Orthodox Christians, idolizes Stepan Bandera, Hitler collaborator and murderer of 600000, and actively propagates neo Unia by seizures, violence and institutional discrimination making this pope's statement either a lie or a plea for time to liquidate this filth while he writes more checks and blesses Putin and RUSSKY MIR.
Russia liberated Auschwitz and Sobibor whose buildings and guards were blessed by the UGCC "beseaching GOD's grace on the holy work of Adolph Hitler." Today's UGCC breathes by banderofascism, preaching quack Ukrainian ethnogenesis by ethnic cleansing. It is clear who the fascists are. No lines are blurred.
The UGCC is a done. Only a racist and Holocaust denier would support it. Its continued existence is an insult to Orthodox Christians and a statement of Holocaust denying hate.
Russian Orthodoxy from the beginning was multi ethnic, embracing a cultural, religious continuum which celebrated the unity of diverse peoples. It was never ethnophyletistic. The Russian church alone is 70% of the Orthodox world. An additional 20 - 25% of Orthodoxy looks to it for fraternal protection and aid. That means Russian Orthodoxy is the center of Orthodoxy and the leader of world Orthodoxy. Yesterday, the pope blessed Putin and the Russian Federation in the Mideast, in the war of civilizations against the post Christian, gay crusading West and winked at Russia's ascendant role in defending Christendom, begging to be included, whispering support for RUSSKY MIR (while handing out checks), having paid for a photo op to announce its sycophancy and courtship of Russia and Orthodoxy. Pay to play. Unia and Ukrainian nationalism are dead. The next Vatican Council will introduce reforms to repent and restore Orthodoxy. While Rome basically shouted Istanbul is no longer a player and Patriarch Kirill laughed.
The majority of Orthodox Christians believe in Orthodoxy and only see interaction with Rome worthwhile predicated on papal reparations, concessions. the end of Unia and the Uniate mentalite and universal papist conversion to Orthodoxy. Nothing else will ever be acceptable to the authentic Catholic Church, Orthodoxy.
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ReplyDelete"Sadly many Orthodox express the same sentiment"
ReplyDeleteAnd in the run-up to this meeting the comments and sentiments from many Catholics were no better.
"Sadly many Orthodox express the same sentiment"
ReplyDeleteAnd in the run-up to this meeting the comments and sentiments from many Catholics were no better.
Agreed but no where near the rhetoric expressed here by Mr. Warren.
DeleteMr. Warren says: "The Unia has no right to exist and will be abolished."
DeletePatriarch Kirill says that they: "have the right to exist and to undertake all that is necessary to meet the spiritual needs of their faithful..."
'nuff said.
Patriarch Kirill was paid to appear in a photo op by the papacy. He is not a pope, and the language of the document is dubious at best. Russian Orthodoxy speaks for Russian Orthodoxy and at the outset has maintained that the religious counterfeit of Unia has no legitimacy and no right to exist.
DeleteThat's final.
Moreover, the fact you say unia should or must means you disagree that it as a model of papal subjugation is defunct. You say that is another papal lie, discrediting your heretical pope's groundless assertions and reassurances. That means either he or you are lying. I believe you both are. Indicating most likely you all are yet again acting in bad faith. No Russian Patriarch is bound to bad faith, papist PR. Moreover, every Russian Patriarchate answers to Orthodoxy and the Russian people.
The Russian people being murdered by Uniate banderofascists speak for all Russian Orthodox in saying UNIA is dead and will answer for all its crimes.
We Orthodox speak with intensity because our Faith is our life and we will never betray it!
So keep the papal checks coming and begin your path of conversion to the authentic Catholic Church, Orthodoxy.
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DeleteWhen did "R. Michael Warren" materialize and decided that website is the appropriate forum for venting vitriol, conspiracy theories and ethnic Ultra-Nationalism? Many, many of us come here every day (thanks to the site's creator) seeking news about the goings-on in our Lord's Holy Orthodox Church. This recent stream of comments has been a sad distraction from that.
ReplyDeletePolitical and theological disputes are always welcomed by the Truth-seeking mind, but the comments of "R. Michael Warren" have long since crossed that line.
There are myriad places on the internet devoted to hate, conspiracy and ethnic nationalism. Why make this one of them?Let us focus on growing in Love for God and charity towards each other.
-The opinion of an saddened long-time reader
The Truth is not a papist friendly popularity contest condoning Uniate crimes against humanity.
DeleteIf you wish to worship your own image, please do so. But know that there are many people unimpressed with it.
I am not a nationalist. And that there is a sign of a lack of education. I am Orthodox, Russian Orthodox. Russian Orthodoxy from the get go welcomes all nationalities in its religious and cultural continuum and celebrares the beauty they bring to enrich an Orthodox civilization we share in love.
It seems you are the victim or russophobia, conspiracy theorists and ignorant propagandists who have poisoned your mind with hate. I am sorry for you.
I think it needs to be iterated, for the sake of the unsuspecting reader, inquirer, and seeker, that "R Michael Warren"'s comments do not represent Orthodoxy but a deranged politicized fringe element that is not only inhumane but heretical.
ReplyDeleteWhen an entire nation of people, created in the image and likeness of God, is written off as belonging to a "quack nationality," comments such as those posted by Warren no longer demand our serious attention except insofar as such deranged nonsense must be contained or even, God forbid, censored.
You speak for a fascist fringe perpetrating crimes against humanity.
DeleteMy statements are neither degraded, nor even a minority position. They reflect the historical position of Russian Orthodoxy, a position shared by 90% of the Orthodox Church. You would be hard pressed to prove otherwise and you know it. The Truth offered for the repentance of papal heretics suffering a blasphemous, soul destroying heresy. That is the greatest love. You are drowning outside the Church and save yourselves.
You, however, are comical speaking for Orthodoxy and being totally estranged from it, representing a fringe, clutching to heresy. WHAT SECATARIAN, FRINGE, PAPIST HUBRIS! Orthodoxy does not and will never confirm to your heretical template. You will deal with Orthodoxy on Orthodoxy's terms. Wake up and keep the papal checks coming.
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DeleteBrother R Michael,
DeleteEven if what you are saying is true... it's not spoken in meekness or love. And truth without love makes the truth itself repulsive. Even if you are casting pearls, you're hurling them like bullets. You need to reflect upon how you approach and dialogue with people. I'm all for polemics when necessary and all truth-despising pseudo-love fests make me sick but you are simply over the top. The Apostle Paul himself approached pagan Greeks and said:
"Men of Athens, I perceive that in every way you are very religious." (Acts 17:22) Elsewhere he said that their "gods" we're demons, but he didn't approach them like: "Men of Athens, I have truth and you worship demons!"
Take a lesson from a Russian Saint:
http://classicalchristianity.com/2012/05/24/st-silouan-on-those-who-differ-from-us-in-faith/
May the Lord grant you patience for those in error and who disagree with you. Pray for me!
in ICXC,
Maximus
Thank you for your kind words and forgive me a sinner. GOD forgives.
DeleteSometimes love expressed in zeal is the only kind which will be heard. The only kind which will prick hardened hearts. Ecumenism has only retrenched papists in heresy. Souls are being lost as a result. That type of comfortable lie is the greater hate. I have no desire to kill or harm but to save. I would be ecstatic to share all I have with these precious souls in the Orthodox Church. I would rejoice in learning and celebrating and welcoming the beauty of their cultures in the authentic Catholic Church, Holy Orthodoxy.
But, brother, when a model of atrocities and submission to a heretical church is in any way given a foothold then the chance of the reclamation of these souls is diminished. Compromise and weakness has historically been exploited by the papacy to harm Orthodox Christians and does so today in the Ukraine. Only love in Truth can lend sobriety here.
They believe that Unia and our submission is the only way they can ever cease to persecute Orthodoxy. They worship a papacy. That must be challenged and all dialogue and love must be predicated on the utter destruction of that premise and an Orthodox redefinition of that papacy of we are soon to more decades of this.
...if we are not to see more decades of this. The papist definition of Orthodox rapproachment is submission to the Chair of Peter, unia. Until the Unia and Uniate mentalite is utterly eradicated, our love will never be felt and they will perceive it as weakness and as a foothold to exploit to force our submission. If Rome is to return to Orthodoxy, no dialogues can mean anything without the eradication of everything Uniate.
ReplyDeleteR Michael Warren:
ReplyDeleteYou are of course entitled to your opinion.
But you need to direct your posts to the Patriarch of Moscow.
Your fundamental disagreement is now with him.
Actually, that is not the case at all. And I refer you back to the above for further reflection. Hopefully, it sinks in that unia is the papal hate which will only inflame Orthodox resistance and leave all your papal money wasted.
DeleteFrom our perspective, nothing short of repentance and return to the authentic Catholic Church, Orthodoxy, is acceptible. If you all persist in Uniate apologetics, you will raise a wave which will put such pressure on the people you bought like Hilarion Alfeev that you will lose all your friends. Then you will be left with people more rigorous like myself who will still take your money while expediting the architecture which liquidates unia.
Unia is dead. Get used to it. No patriarch and no local church will risk schism and turmoil to save it. Much the list the leader of world Orthodoxy. I hope you understand what that means. There is no ground to give, not an inch. Unia will be eradicated.
Your pope paid for a PR stunt to bless Putin and RUSSKY MIR and beg for more time to get his ducks in a row. If he doesn't deliver the goods, nothing happens, we take your money and will still exterminate the filth of unia.
Irregardless, unia is dead. That is final. Final. Orthodoxy is not a papal monarchy but a conciliar organism of sobornost. Putin and the Patriarchate both cannot afford to alienate their core of support. Uniate banderofascists blessed by their accursed apostate bishops are engaged in ethnic cleansing and crimes against humanity, murdering to spread a neo Unia. That is the bad faith which leaves the papal paid for PR stunt as nothing but propaganda.
You know it. Just as you know that papal statements insisting that the Orthodox churches submit to the Chair of Peter to be considered fully legitimate ARE NOTHING BUT AN INSISTANCE ON UNIA AS A MODEL OF REUNION! That is unacceptable, AND PATRIARCH KIRILL HAS UNEQUIVOCABLY STATED AS SUCH.
So what do we have left when we balance the equation? Papal money, a blessing for Putin and RUSSKY MIR, and the incumbency of papal repentance, where if Unia is not liquidated, you can never reenter the Catholic Church, Orthodoxy. And you get nothing from us.
So your problem is with your pope who needs to con you all with a shell game to get what he needs from Russia to keep your moribund, papist church from going the way of Anglicanism in the next 25 years. And you know it. So I suggest you reconcile yourself with the fact that liquidation of unia is a precondition for achieving any real hope of rapproachment and survival. Them or our good graces.
Just as it was imperative to stop Hitler and destroy the Third Reich so too it is a humanitarian necessity to eradicate Unia and its political program of ethnic cleansing.
The fact you glibly insist on the preservation of this criminal organism shouts that you and yours are not serious about unity with the Orthodox.
Until Unia and the Uniate mentalite is liquidated with apologies there will be no prospect for any possible rapproachment. That's final. Write that down, keep the checks coming, and we will take the first order of Go Putin tee shirts. Lol!!!!
All I can say is that if Mr. Warren with his ethno-phyletist polemics had been a part of my early exposure to Orthodoxy, I would probably still be Roman Catholic.
ReplyDeleteYes! This!
DeleteThank you!
The fact you don't even understand what ethnophyletism is and can't read the clear reason why I am the opposite shouts you probably aren't Orthodox now. Become Orthodox, and then we will talk about an Orthodox formation which you clearly lack. Seems you are either a Uniate or aspire to be one.
DeleteBECAUSE, OF COURSE, BANDEROFASCIST UGCC UNIA WITH ITS QUACK UKRAINIAN ARIAN, HITLERITE, RACE THEORIES AND SS DIVISIOND ISN'T ETHNOPHYLETIST!!!!!!!!!
Yes!!!!!!!!!!
No, it is just the main survival of NAZI RACISM IN OUR TIME ENGAGED IN ETHNIC CLEANSING, GENOCIDE AND crimes against humanity. You would have joined them (or have).
But you became Orthodox supposedly because somebody told you a Third Reich survival in the twenty first century engaged in ethnic cleansing as a religious counterfeit is legitimate?!
YES, EXACTLY THAT!
Friend, the Russian church is 150 million + strong. We defend an additional 30 - 50 million Orthodox Christians. Uniate genocidal murderers and their sympathizers are a hateful fringe non normative of Orthodoxy and part of a Renovationist 1%. Such people are nothing but their own religious counterfeit. They are not Orthodox.
Unia will be eradicated. That's final.
Keep the religious counterfeits to yourselves. Keep the checks coming and the Putin Rocks! tee shirts, hats, mugs and commemorative albums. Because your pope sure lives to give SMOOCHIES TO RUSSKY MIR "ethnophyletism." I guess your issue is with him. LOL!!!!
Wish you all the best with the non ETHNOPHYLETIST Ukrainian fascists! Because a 95%+ multi ethnic Orthodox world uncompromising in the face of Uniate BANDEROFASCIST genocide and papal heresy seems to be not to your liking.
DeleteExactly that! Yes!
Yes, UNIATE, UGCC Stepan Bandera and the UNIATE, UGCC Galician SS with the Ukrainian concentration camp guards with the blood of 1,000,000+ on their hands are not hateful, ethnic based monsters. No, not at all! You want to be as ethnically tolerant as them and round 250 Russian Orthodox Christians into a trade union building in Odessa, beat them within an inch of their lives and then set the building on fire burning them alive! You animals even raped a pregnant woman on 2, May, 2014 there in Odessa. Then you burned her and her unborn child alive! Wonder if you say rosaries for her and the thousands like her you have murdered in the past two years for Ukrainian Uniate ethnogenesis. But such "promotion of Christian unity" is indulgenced so it is all good! It is not ethnophyletism. A religion which supports that ethnic cleansing and perpetuation of the NAZI Holocaust is what you want!
Thank you for wanting nothing to do with the Orthodox Church! We don't need papist enablers of Kristallnact-esque pogroms!
Yes, the Uniates will answer at a reconvening of the Nuremberg Process with all their enablers! The Unia will be eradicated.
Keep the papal checks coming. 50000 RUSSKY MIR YES EXACTLY!!! Tee shirts please.
What happened to "will ease off, sorry" ?
DeleteWhat are you hoping to accomplish with these screeds? Hopeless, meaningless, idle chatter. Your salvation does not consist in this, my friend. "Pray for those who hate you and bless those who persecute you," that is all I have left to say. I believe you are gravely misled. Forgive me if this causes offense, and pray for me.
I'm curious by what Mr. Warren (odd name for a Black Hundredist) would do with the millions of Galicians, Volhynians etc who are members of the UGCC? What does he mean by "eradicate"? Also, what if the Maronites, Melkites, etc. Are they to eradicated to make way for "RUSSKY MIR!!!"?
ReplyDeleteRespectfully, is the curator of this blog aware of the racist abuse that is being perpetrated in these comboxes? Civility has long since ceased. As a news source I and many fellow Orthodox Christians regularly consult, this blog's credibility is presently at stake.
ReplyDeleteVolynians are Orthodox. So you are totally ignorant and don't know what you are talking about. But we knew that before you came out in defense of banderofascist Uniate pogroms, ethnic cleansing and Holocaust denial.
ReplyDeleteYou support people rehabilitating Adolph Hitler's policies in our time. How does it feel supporting people who seek to fulfill the vision of the Galician SS and Stepan Bandera. That's a million plus and counting crime of genocide. Papism in its truest form and rhetoric.
You mention black hundreds while supporting people who deny the Holocaust and maintain the "defeat of NAZI Germany in WWII was a tragedy for humanity "?! You support the immolation of peaceful civilians and pogroms against Orthodox Christians in Odessa on 02May14 and yet you mention black hundreds?!
You establish Unia with lynchings, beatings, flayings, rapine, immolations, pogroms, qv Josaphat Kuntsevich, and you mention black hundreds?!
Same old papist blessing of genocide to coerce submission to Rome. This is what your heretical papal cult is all about. Thank you for admitting it. Keep the checks coming.
Eradication is the end of the religious counterfeit. Not of the people. We Orthodox aren't papists. We don't engage in conversion of people through mass murder. You all will have to answer to Jerusalem and Antioch about the Melkites. But at this time, the Maronites are more faithful to your papal, Roman rite than you are. Unia is dead. Get ready to face the future.
Eradication means ceasing Unia's criminal existence and functioning. Meaning Uniates have their consciences respected and they get to choose papal heresy with papal rites or return to Orthodoxy with Orthodox rites. We aren't papists. We eradicate and stop evil, not return papal ethnic cleansing in kind. That's what you all are about. You show us every day in the Ukraine what papism is still really all about: pogroms, persecution, mass murder, ethnic cleansing.
We take your money and act to undo the evil you and your pope perpetrate around the world. And to save lives you all would otherwise snuff out. So keep the money and merchandise coming.
It is poetic justice that your pope is now blessing RUSSKY MIR. And, no, we don't want you to use a banderofascist template and send in black hundred knights of Fatima. It is our hope to peacefully denazify and rehabilitate the Uniate banderofascist monsters you have created. More checks please.
I ask that you withdraw the calumny that I defended, minimized, or justified the holocaust, Nazism, or the events in the Odessa Profsoyuz
Deletebuilding. I merely asked for clarification on your use of the word "eradicate" for the 5 million members of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. God bless.
The truly over-the-top nature of R. Michael Warren's commentary makes me wonder if he is actually a Catholic zealot trying to fabricate online evidence that Orthodox are extremists who get upset over the rather measured statement of Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill.
ReplyDelete(How's that for a conspiracy theory?)
I am not a fan of conspiracy theorists, but the thought that he might be a Roman operating under false flag in order to make us look like a bunch of loons had crossed my mind as well. The commentary is is so over the top it is almost impossible not to consider the possibility.
DeleteI had the same thought. But looking widely at the on-line comments suggests that Mr. Warren's thoughts, while expressed with unusual vividness, are held by many Orthodox. I hope that Patriarch Kirill's lead will be accepted and will change the mentality of these people.
DeleteA 5th columnist eh? Now it all makes sense.
Delete