To get this straight: We can mark your death, but we'll deny you the promise of everlasting life. That seems fair.
Nov 16, 2020 / 10:30 am MT (CNA) - Police halted a baptism in a Baptist church in London on Sunday, citing the country’s coronavirus restrictions that include bans on weddings and baptisms. The restrictions have been criticized by the Catholic bishops of England and Wales.
A pastor at The Angel Church in London’s Islington borough held a baptism with approximately 30 people in attendance, in violation of the country’s public health restrictions. Metropolitan police halted the baptism and stood guard outside the church to prevent anyone from entering, BBC News reported on Sunday.
After the baptism was stopped, Pastor Regan King reportedly agreed to hold an outdoor gathering. According to the Evening Standard, 15 people remained inside the church while another 15 people gathered outside to pray. The original planned event was a baptism and an in-person service, the Evening Standard reported.
The U.K. government implemented its second set of major, nationwide restrictions during the pandemic, closing pubs, restaurants, and “non-essential” businesses for four weeks due to a surge in virus cases.
Churches can be open only for funerals and for “individual prayer” but not “communal worship.”
The country’s first lockdown occurred in the spring, when churches were closed from March 23 until June 15.
Catholic bishops have sharply criticized the second set of restrictions, with Cardinal Vincent Nichols of Westminster and Archbishop Malcolm McMahon of Liverpool issuing an Oct. 31 statement that the closure of churches would cause “deep anguish.”
“Whilst we understand the many difficult decisions facing the government, we have not yet seen any evidence whatsoever that would make the banning of communal worship, with all its human costs, a productive part of combating the virus,” the bishops wrote.
Lay Catholics have also opposed the new restrictions as well, with the president of The Catholic Union, Sir Edward Leigh, calling the restrictions “a huge blow to Catholics across the country.”
More than 32,000 people have signed a petition to Parliament asking for “corporate worship and congregational singing” to be allowed in houses of worship.
Before the second lockdown, Cardinal Nichols told CNA that one of the worst consequences of the first lockdown was that people were “cruelly separated” from their loved ones who were sick.
He also predicted “changes” to the Church, one of them being Catholics having to adjust to watching Mass offered remotely.
“This sacramental life of the Church is corporal. It’s tangible. It’s in the substance of the sacrament and of the gathered body … I hope that this time, for many people, of Eucharistic fast gives us an additional, sharpened taste for the real Body and Blood of the Lord.”
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ReplyDeleteThere is plenty of evidence. As sure as the sky is blue and the sun rises you can't spread this virus to others without coming into close contact with others. Right now, the *only* effective means of limiting this pandemic is limiting contact and changing behavior...unless perhaps you believe in Thrice Blessed Transubstantiated Architecture a la Fr. Peter Heers and company.
ReplyDeleteNow, there can be effective ways of doing this, ones that don't involve "banning" outright. These bishops hinge their argument on what they interpret as what is/is not "productive" and what is/is not a "human cost". Their problem is that they are now in a severe minority and even otherwise sympathetic secular citizens and government officials don't understand the significance and modality of this or that sacrament. Combine this with too too many trad Christians who ignore and even flaunt defiance around masks, reasonable capacity limits, and the like and things like this are going to happen.
Watching porn is to sex as on-line viewing Liturgy is to worship, a mere distraction to what is Real.
ReplyDeletePoppycock. Your masturbatory fantasies are your problem, not the medium's. Throughout history martyr's have prayed in far worse circumstances - the gulag's for example.
DeletePut a little effort in. Stand in front of your computer/TV screen instead of sitting. Pray the prayers, bow the bows, and sign the songs.
Masks have no preventative powers. If they did, the CDC would be issuing detailed protocols for scrupulous removal and disposal of your virus-laden mask as hazardous waste. I'm probably already giving the OCD's on this board ideas.
ReplyDeleteMasks theoretically slow the inevitable spread of the virus by limiting the radius of infected droplets which infected people spew when they sneeze or cough, which means the virus is already endemic. This is all a charade, which is why the medical profession originally said don't bother; masks are so surgeons don't drool into the open wounds they cut into their patients. People wore them during the Spanish Flu, and they were equally ineffective.
Any way, if masks are safe and distancing is safe then not going to Church is even safer. All the tactile parts of the Faith have been eliminated by the secular authorities and the Eucharist is a fraught, tense event with everybody nervously eyeing their fellow congregants for a telltale sniffle or cough. And no socializing afterward.
"Masks have no preventative powers...This is all a charade, which is why the medical profession originally said don't bother...People wore them during the Spanish Flu, and they were equally ineffective..."
DeletePoppycock. That's and understatement - you have no flippen idea what you are talking about. Masks, social distancing, isolating when and where you can - all these things are very effective in eliminating transmission of this virus.
I know this is an individualistic culture where we distrust each and every authority, but sometimes, even often, they are right and our conspiratorial minds are wrong. Masks have been a standard part of medicine for 125 years for a reason. Germ theory is real, as real as the math the engineer uses construct that bridge you drive over every day.
Mask up!
There was no germ theory in Holy Russia!
DeleteIn Holy Russia, the bridges are designed by a contemplative saint sitting on his stool in a room with a single small window...
DeleteIn Holy Russia a priest, a monk, and a babushka walk into a bar...and thousands are saved.
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DeleteMasks, social distancing, isolating when and where you can - all these things are very effective in eliminating transmission of this virus.
DeleteNo, they really are not. Your mask isn't doing anything unless you're already infected, which means it's already endemic. The whole hypothesis makes zero sense which, again, is why they said don't bother with masks.
Social distancing is probably prophylactic, but you're as likely to get it from surfaces as somebody being near you. Again, this assumes you're around somebody who's infectious and, again, it's already endemic.
Really, the only thing you mentioned that has much efficacy is staying home when you're sick.
Biohazard suits would work best of all, and in a few months you wouldn't have a functioning immune system.
"No, they really are not."
DeleteNo, they really are. By what authority do you speak against the consensus of the epidemiological/medical communities? What is your experience/expertise/training in this area?
"Your mask isn't doing anything unless you're already infected..."
Wrong. See experts.
"but you're as likely to get it from surfaces as somebody being near you..."
Wrong. See experts.
"Biohazard suits...in a few months you wouldn't have a functioning immune system."
Lol. Never heard an expert opinion about this, but based on the fact that a handful of folks have isolated themselves in experiments and space for "a few months" and come back with functioning immune systems, my guess is your wrong about this as well ;)
Jake,
DeleteHave you actually consulted any studies on masks or are you relying on second hand MSM reports? The Oxford Center for Evidence Based Medicine has outlined the existing studies, and shown that there is no solid evidence for the widespread use of masks to limit Influenza like illnesses. The Vietnamese study (low quality) showed no statistically significant benefit. The recent danish study similarly had inconclusive results with various caveats listed by the authors. Additionally, the rate of infection (if the low quality diagnostic PCR tests with sensitive cycle can be believed) in countries with heavy lockdowns is compared with those that did none of those things (like Sweden), there is no statistically significant difference in outcomes. Your posturing behind “experts” is useless.
Well, the dead have nothing to fear from the virus.
ReplyDeleteAnd while communal worship is banned, it looks as if very small gatherings would be allowed, e.g., the required participants in a baptism.
There is a long history East and West of closing churches in the face of plague, disease, etc.
There is theology and a long history recognizing that desire for the sacraments equals the sacrament when they are not available, e/g/. martyrdom of blood.
But, you know, it feels better to cry persecution.
This is not nearly on any scale as the plagues that wrecked cities in antiquity, before potable water and sewage treatment, and vermin control. The IFR is extremely low and heavily weighted towards obvious co-morbidities. Like Influenza A.
Delete"The IFR is extremely low and heavily weighted towards obvious co-morbidities. Like Influenza A."
DeleteWrong, just wrong. The IFR is very high - this is a virulent (i.e. easy to catch from others) virus. Infection has nothing to do with comorbidities, and frankly the correlation (to say nothing of causation) between comorbidities and death is just about lost on the media talking heads and the public, and is not "like infuenza A.".
What ignorant (right wing probably) conspiracy haven have you been listening/visting?
I don't think you have any idea how big a number 320,000,000 is. And no, the IFR is not "very high." You have a very, very good chance of recovering from this virus unless you're elderly or fat.
DeleteIt's not particularly virulent, which is why neither I nor a single person in my immediate and extended family have gotten it.
I may have had it in February when I got hit with something and stayed on the couch for a couple of days. But apparently my superb constitution pulled me through and continues to protect me from this deadly, virulent virus.
"I don't think you have any idea how big a number 320,000,000 is"
DeleteYes I do, I know exactly how big it is. It's 320,000,000 big...exactly ;0)
"no, the IFR is not "very high."..."
I was reading this in laymen terms as "infection rate". How are you using it...Increased Fall Rate? ;)
"You have a very, very good chance of recovering from this virus unless you're elderly or fat."
There is so much wrong with this sentence it's hard to even begin. Let's look at the big picture - the mortality rate is about 2%. Of the 5000 people who tested positive today in Pennsylvania (just to choose a number I saw), 100 of them will be dead at the end of 3 weeks. Excess mortality in USA is currently at 11.6% directly due to this virus, and will only remain there if this current spike settles back down and is not a real "second wave". We have healthy (i.e. not "fat" or anything else) 30 and 40 year olds on ventilators right now in our hospital - they have little chance of being alive in 2 weeks. Your ignorant underbelly is showing...
"It's not particularly virulent, which is why neither I nor a single person in my immediate and extended family have gotten it...."
Well slap me up side the head with an armadillo. I guess you have settled it. You don't know anybody, geez. Since you have never actually seen a germ, I guess they ain't real either, and that whole orbiting the sun thing...
"I may have had it in February when I got hit with something and stayed on the couch for a couple of days. But apparently my superb constitution pulled me through and continues to protect me from this deadly, virulent virus..."
Geez, what's your cure for cancer and why have you kept it from the world?
Jake - there is no cure for respiratory viruses, nor is there anything you can do to keep them from spreading to the entire population, where individuals' immune systems will either suppress it or not. As we converse, you are dying and will eventually die. There's a good chance it will be from a respiratory virus that cascades into your death. I'm sorry; it will happen to me too. But the Infection Fatality Rate for COVID is barely 1% and 70% of the deaths are over age 70, so your odds are good again, unless you're old or fat. By the way, if you're fat lose weight.
DeleteThe masks, the distancing, the lockdowns will not alter the eventual outcome one bit. Maybe the vaccine will make a difference, once we figure out mass distribution at the -70 C they're telling us the product must be kept at. Which means it's a live vaccine they've got to keep in stasis. Which means old people can't receive it and everybody will have viral remnants they're shedding. Oh crap.
"nor is there anything you can do to keep them from spreading to the entire population..."
DeleteWrong. Effective vaccines do this very thing.
"Infection Fatality Rate for COVID is barely 1%"
You don't know this - this is either a conspiratorial assertion on your part (often repeated in the right wing sites/sources you are trusting), or ignorance. Neither you, me, or anyone else knows the real infection rate. What we do know is that 2% of those tested positive die, and that about 8% have will live with a very serious "post-covid" syndrome similar to post polio.
"70% of the deaths are over age 70"
Wrong
"the lockdowns will not alter the eventual outcome one bit. "
Wrong. Effective vaccine(s), right around the corner, changes everything.
"-70 C they're telling us the product must be kept at. Which means it's a live vaccine they've got to keep in stasis."
Wrong. None of the vaccine's we are likely to get in the next 2-6 months are live virus, not that it matters because you don't understand the implications even if this were true.
"Which means old people can't receive it" and everybody will have viral remnants they're shedding..."
Wrong, just wrong.
"...and everybody will have viral remnants they're shedding."
Wrong again. You truly are special ATG, or just really lucky, to get this much wrong this consistently. You should go buy a lottery ticket. Be sure to wear a mask, for your own sake and others...
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-10-covid-deaths-infection-fatality-ratio.html
DeleteIf you want to look at the underlying studies, they are all out there and readily accessible. In summary, the odds are about 99% in your favor if you're under age 65. They decrease to 95% past age 80. I understand you're a young parent, so you have plenty of time to prepare for your eventual death from influenza, corona or the other respiratory viruses that will inevitably break out over your next decades on earth.
Old people can't receive live vaccines. Their geriatric immune systems aren't robust enough.
Here's the issues on the cold storage.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/11/temperature-concerns-could-slow-rollout-new-coronavirus-vaccines
One way or another, this virus is gonna getcha! Memento mori!
The Laity will leave those places that refuse to minister to them during this difficult crisis and they will never return. Conversely, the laity will flock to those places that insist on overcoming the many obstacles towards ministry.
ReplyDeleteGil Garza,
DeleteWe've worked with the faithful to all draw closer together in the communities I serve. It's the way forward.
Delete FaceBook, delete social media. Give that time to prayer, family, and the Church community. Spend the time chatting online with folks from Church that you don't see or you aren't able to see. Seek those Orthodox communities and faithful that are living the Christian life.
Keep me in your prayers too, God Bless you!
Fr. Alexis Baldwin
Jake and Anti-Gnostic which one of you is William F Buckley and which Gore Vidal? (Dating myself but--hey I am old)
ReplyDeleteShameless plug: Elderberry Juice Concentrate from Wyldewood Cellars Winery has proven anti-viral protective qualities. 100% Elderberry not the diluted Sambucol.
Lol Michael! Can I be Buckley, please! ;)
DeleteI have been meaning to ask you, have you ever followed up on that essay you wrote about an American Orthodoxy and culture? George published it on his site a year or two ago, but I don't visit there anymore (unless linked somewhere else)...
Jake, only in this sense: the work of The Fellowship of St. Moses the Black. http://mosestheblack.org/
DeleteThe virus mess makes organizing anything difficult.
Also please pray for Fr. Moses Berry. His health is still quite precarious.
....and while I understand your choice of Buckley, Vidal was able to get to him and under the veneer of sophistication. They were both very odd men. Their arguments creating more heat than light.