Wednesday, March 3, 2021

USCCB on J&J vaccine

I fail to see the distinction between using the cells of our aborted children in vaccines and using them to test those vaccines. In both situations they were used to make the vaccine. That the product of a nefarious act was done in room A and not in room B doesn't negate that the act happened. It just makes it easier to ignore when you happen to not be in room A. We seem to be willing to accept the fruits of malign actions as long as the perceived benefits of the juice are worth the pains of the squeeze. How convenient.

WASHINGTON (USCCB) – On March 2, Bishop Kevin C. Rhoades of Fort Wayne-South Bend, chairman of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops’ (USCCB) Committee on Doctrine, and Archbishop Joseph F. Naumann of Kansas City in Kansas, chairman of the USCCB’s Committee on Pro-Life Activities, issued a statement on the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine recently approved for use in the United States. 

“The approval of Johnson & Johnson’s COVID-19 vaccine for use in the United States again raises questions about the moral permissibility of using vaccines developed, tested, and/or produced with the help of abortion-derived cell lines.

Pfizer and Moderna’s vaccines raised concerns because an abortion-derived cell line was used for testing them, but not in their production.  The Johnson & Johnson vaccine, however, was developed, tested and is produced with abortion-derived cell lines raising additional moral concerns. The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has judged that ‘when ethically irreproachable Covid-19 vaccines are not available … it is morally acceptable to receive Covid-19 vaccines that have used cell lines from aborted fetuses in their research and production process.’[1] However, if one can choose among equally safe and effective COVID-19 vaccines, the vaccine with the least connection to abortion-derived cell lines should be chosen. Therefore, if one has the ability to choose a vaccine, Pfizer or Moderna’s vaccines should be chosen over Johnson & Johnson’s.  

“While we should continue to insist that pharmaceutical companies stop using abortion-derived cell lines, given the world-wide suffering that this pandemic is causing, we affirm again that being vaccinated can be an act of charity that serves the common good.” 


  1. And our Orthodox Bishops are silent. Silence means consent. God forgive us.

    1. Yes, Michael. The silence is deafening. It does not matter how long ago the abortion occurred. It does not matter whether the fetal lines are part of the actual vaccine, or utilized during pre-trial testing.

      It was evil in 1970...and it is evil today.

  2. I understand the objections, but at the same time, it is wise to remember that a good portion of our medical knowledge was gained through immoral means (human experimentation, grave robbing, et al).

    How far down the rabbit hole do we want to go with the moral argument? How many generations removed does the outrage have to be, before it is all "licit"?

    I think this statement is sensible, and I have heard it echoed in the Orthodox world, although not through "official statements" which seem to be ubiquitous in America.

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  4. David B. In the case of the COVID "vaccines" there is so much wrong from start to finish:

    one does not even need the fetal cell line argument to avoid them. I do not and will not consent to any of them.

    Moral purity is impossible in any aspect of modern life. One does the best one can and seeks to live in the mercy of Christ both repenting and forgiving.

    1. Michael,

      If you believe what the "chidrenhealthdefense" is telling you about covid vaccination deaths in Israel, I have an incredible deal on some beachfront property in Arizona I would like to discuss with you.

  5. ‘We’ve already sinned, so why does it matter if we sin more?’ Thats your argument? To say that reasoning is a slippery slope would be generous.

    Without even opening the can of worms that is the vaccine debate; these ‘vaccines’ are different from all previous vaccines. They were not created or proven to stop the spread of COVID and they dont make you immune. That’s according to Fauci et all by the way. Which is why they’ve said even after everyone takes the vaccine, things will “not go back to normal”.

    For all intents and purposes they’re experimental gene therapy.

    Never mind the fact that the people who invested in their development are some of the most corrupt and despicable people of our day. Such as Bill Gates who is obsessed with using a needle to ‘save’ the world, and has publicly said, via his Ted Talk circa 2010, that he wants to reduce the world’s population by ten to fifteen percent via vaccines. Which isn’t too shocking considering he was raised by eugenicists involved with Planned Parenthood.

    But again, if you believe that this is the greatest plague to ever touch the earth, and that physical safety is the ultimate goal in this life, what’s a few slaughtered children on the altar of our continued prosperity? It’s for the greater good.

    1. "...They were not created or proven to stop the spread of COVID and they dont make you immune..."


      "...For all intents and purposes they’re experimental gene therapy..."


    2. “Right” because my opinion is stronger than yours :D oh wait. No. I can actually reference something other than my own aggrandized opinion.

      “Prevention of overall coronavirus infection was not addressed directly in the trial, though Pfizer promised to examine it later through antibody testing.”

      “Right now, researchers say, their best guess is that vaccines will reduce transmission but may not prevent it entirely.

      “We don’t know, but it’s an important question because the answer will influence mask wearing; it will influence behavior; it relates to comfort going to restaurants and movies and the overall benefit we can expect with vaccines,”

      Again not going to bother referencing all the doctors and scientists who are criticizing the development, efficacy and side effects of this experimental vaccine technology. Or the fact that countless nurses and doctors in the US are refusing to take it because of their total lack of faith in said technology.

      Because ultimately this comes down to who you believe, and we dont believe the same people.

      But good job on completely ignoring the moral/spiritual core of the issue. Abortion is okay when it saves lives through vaccines right?

  6. "...I can actually reference something other than my own aggrandized opinion..."

    That's just it you can't. You have neither the experience or knowledge to understand, let alone make a judgement, as to what epidemiologists and other qualified commentators (such as Dr. Fauci)are saying about viruses, vaccines, masks, and transmission. So you visit the conspiratorial buffet, picking and choosing quotes to fit your libertarian ideological agenda, and claim "See! They are inconsistent! They are hypocrites! They LIE!!"

    On top of this, you misappropriate Orthodox piety and morality to express this passionate and foolish ideology, claiming that because others are mistaken/foolish it somehow justifies your erroneous judgements.

    You are partially correct, it *starts* with "what is believed". Delusional conspiratorial thinking however is largely a broken *judgement* - so in error in what comes after first principals and foundational fact. A person can not weigh and properly relate principals/facts without good judgement...

    1. Fauci famously couldn't figure out what was causing the exponential transmission of HIV when Reagan appointed him to his redundant, purely advisory sinecure back in 1984. The bathhouses and clubs remained open as homosexuals literally screwed themselves to death in drug-fueled orgies.

      His, whatever it is, agency, also researches allergies. These have been mounting, including the bizarre and evolutionarily unprecedented gluten intolerance. Fauci is a delightful little imp, but his scientific chops are lacking.

      Sars-Cov 2 has already beaten H1N1 for access to our upper respiratory tracts and the vaccine is already chasing the variants from behind. It will show up for the next season of flu, which it has replaced. I suggest you lose your 40 excess pounds and start lifting and getting outdoor exercise.

    2. As ever Jake, you remain undefeated at finding the most convoluted ways to say “the only opinion that matters is mine”. Anyone who disagrees with me must be all of these negative labels that I keep handy for disregarding and dehumanizing others.

      If you think abortion is okay and research that benefits from the murder of children is okay, that’s between you and your spiritual confessor. But the fact remains that the vaccines were not proven to stop the spread or make you immune. That’s the “hope” and the “best guess” but there’s no proof as of yet.

      I also love how me quoting facts and official statements that you can google, is conspiracy.

      You forgot to call me a Russian provocateur and a redneck! Sloppy. Making ad hominem convincing requires finesse you know.

  7. Jake, I don't think you and I have ever agreed on anything. My Dad was a nationally renowned public health officer who ran a model local public health department with significant input into national policy. He educated my brother and me on what good public health action and policy is. The COVID crap ain't it. It fails completely and miserably on every level.

    Immunization was a keystone to his preventative approach. The COVID shots do not prevent COVID.

    My wife has two grand daughters on the front lines in emergency medicine. Neither wants the jabberwocky.

    1. Michael,

      I wonder if you have not spent too much time the last few years in George's conspiratorial universe. I own/run a medical practice (my wife is a physician, we employ others), and in our medical community (a small city with 2 main hospitals, and several other institutions) I can't think of a single physician, and only a handful of nurses/techs who think COVID vaccination is "jabberwocky". In the rehab hospital in and out of which we run our practice, 121 out of 127 employees (including all physicians and nurses)took the vaccine. I don't know what your father taught you, but I suspect he would experience *shame* at your poor judgement - I know I do after having discussed many things with you over the years.

  8. Jake, my father was never ashamed of me or my brother--angry, perplexed, but never ashamed. Both my brother and I came to the Orthodox Church because of how he looked at life and health--that perplexed him most of all.

    He was highly critical of the medical establishment for its failure to see the whole picture of community life. To him public health should be focused on making the community healthier. The focus should be on bettering the full health of every member of one's local community. Treat the person, not the disease.

    All life is interrelated.

    A good friend of mine who is an Orthodox priest takes the position that "of course the world will fail to address COVID. There is no foundation for addressing it properly."

    I have an Orthodox doctor friend who has extensively researched the alternative treatment to the vaccine both after and before infection.

    I long ago stopped putting much faith in modern technocratic "medicine". So much humanity has gone out of it.

    As dedicated as my Dad was to getting people vaccinated, the over all health of the community was of prime importance to him.

    He practiced preventative medicine. Whatever the COVID injection is, even its most ardent defenders say it prevents nothing.

    All I see from Fauci, et. al. is a propaganda op.reminisnt of Chicken Little.

    George is George. I have taken to trying to post stuff that runs contra to his and Gail's world view. As you may have noticed I tend to be a contrarian (a trait I picked up from my Dad).

    Still, they are not always wrong. Maybe some day we can say that about each other. God's mercy endures forever.

  9. On the positive side the casino that is a couple of miles from my home is going to be sponsoring an arena football team. Because my brother-in-law's business (where my wife and son also work) advertises there, we get some perks. Wyldewood Cellars Winery who's Elderberry Dry Reserve and other non-grape wines are exceptional and its Elderberry Juice Concentrate has more proven anti-viral properties than anything ever produced by Big Pharma (absolutely no babies killed in its production ever). Try it folks. It really works. "A swig a day, keeps the viruses at bay"

    America is alive and well in the heartland.

  10. Oh, and Jake the world, the flesh and the devil really do form a conspiracy against us. My recent experience with the medical establishment (20 years or so) puts them squarely both in the world and of it.

  11. The only docs I have known during that time who have demonstrated care and humility are surgeons. Three cardiovascular surgeons and two orthopods.
    Of the five, two attend my parish, one of whom, Dr. George Farha of blessed memory was of God for sure. I saw it every time I talked with him at coffee hour on Sunday. He had a good defence before the dread judgement seat of Christ.

  12. I know it's not as reliable as InfoWars, another right-wing infotainment lifestyle fetish site, or "what my dad told me", but here's a fact check from Reuters on the lack of evidence the vaccine for COVID-19 caused fatalities in Israel:

    Here's one from Bloomberg News:

    And the BBC:

    And Al-Jazeera on similarly unfounded fears in Norway:

    Note, these are news organizations with actual reputations, revenue, etc. rather than some generically named website organization. Beware good web design presenting fringe nuts, bots, and basement bloggers with no real standing as something easily taken as credibility, cf. QAnon, anti-vaxxer mommy bloggers.

  13. The fact is my stance on the vaccine has much more to do with my recent encounters with the deep and pervasive inhumanity in the medical system than anything George says.

    So many doctors have forgotten what it means to treat the human being that is before them in need.

    My Dad always did that and he had far more patients, about 300,000 at the time.

    Modern medicine frankly sucks in terms of honest humanity. Between predatory lawyers, insurance companies, drug companies and medical education it is almost impossible.

    Full disclosure I worked in health insurance for over 20 years as an agent and customer service.

    I can do little about it except protest and pray for mercy. Mercy is more effective.

    Our common hubris and shame at the limitations of our bodies and death lead us into many dark places.

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  15. There is an excellent piece on Mind of the Fathers "Crown of Creation" that discusses the issues. The link does not work.


  17. 123 There is reason to do your own research and come to your own conclusions. I am an old dude and I have seem enough death to have no fear of it and to also know that if God, in His mercy, ends my time here on earth, there is nothing I can do about it.

    If I get COVID, I will either recover or die. I am fine with either and I hope to give God Glory for all things.

    BTW masks do nothing to protect against airborne virus. I wear them as a courtesy to others, but when they make it difficult for me to breath, I adjust them so I can.

  18. Hi all,
    Does anyone know whether Coronavac from China has also been tested using such cells? I asked the author of the article linked above from the blog Mind of the Fathers, but he didn't know. Coronavac is widely being administered here in Brazil.

    Thanks in advance.