You thought being publicly censured by the Holy Synod was going to be some sort of aversion therapy? Think again. Now you can get that same advice for $1.60 a minute. NB: This is not the Onion Dome.
Arrange a one-hour personal conversation with Sister to talk about spiritual concerns, or just to pick her brain on the topic of your choice, face-to-face!
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$80/50 minutes for one-on-one sessions.
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Wait...charging for spiritual counseling? Is that even allowed?
ReplyDeleteI learned from my sister-in-law during a recent family gathering that there this is a regular thing in certain Protestant circles. She showed me a book she was reading that was a modern take on Fowler's "Stages of Faith" (not that the author even mentioned him in the biblio) and that her "Spiritual Director" had recommended it to her. I of course asked her who exactly is her spiritual director and she explained it was some Methodist who "charged whatever I can pay" (this seen as a positive ;) ) and who allegedly learned her craft through some Roman Catholic training program! I think I managed to mostly keep a straight face...mostly...
DeleteI guess so. It may not seem very Christian, but considering that many churches charge for certain sacraments, such as baptism, and also charge for things like praying for people in the altar, Sr. Vassa's approach here shouldn't be surprising.
DeleteAny church that charges for sacraments is violating the canons against simony. That is a horrible abuse.
DeleteFr John, is online counseling a sacrament? I don't agree with her doing that, but does it really constitute simony?
DeleteOnline counseling is not a sacrament, and what she is doing is not simony, but a rassophore nun does not usually engage in counselling, and a monastic does not usually charge for their counsel.
DeleteI understand that she needs to be able to live, but that is what convents are for. If she were simply Dr. Vassa, and was offering to provide online tutoring, obviously that would be another matter entirely.
"If she were simply Dr. Vassa,"
DeleteThat is what I have argued all along - that she is in fact (via a "lifestyle" and deep personal commitments) an academic and scholar. Her monasticism seems "thrown on", like she is playing dress up. Some have enabled this (Bishop Mark I am pointing at you) and I am openly questioning the wisdom of it.
She peddles academic Orthodoxy (not that such a thing is all bad in-of-itself) while dressed as a nun, and this gives her an air of authority (the authority of a monastic who is living an acesis that the majority of us do not) that she in fact does not have...
I assume she takes on a rigorous prayer life as prescribed her by the Church as a nun. She is also vowed to lifelong celibacy. I'm not foo-foo-ing others' concerns here. Even I, who has a soft spot for Sr Vassa, am uncomfortable with this-- although admittedly, it doesn't really matter what I think. But "thrown on" does not at all seem a fair description of Sr Vassa's monasticism.
DeleteAlso, her scholarship seems pretty solid. Often when she was considered controversial in the past (before the recent scandal), she was simply guilty of asking tough questions in the light of real historical facts.
I have always wondered why Sr. Vassa is not assigned to a monastery? It seems to me that she needs to be under obedience, as all monastics are, to an Abbess. She reminds me more of an active religious (a Western Catholic semi-monastic movement). I think this is foreign to the Christian Easts concept of the monastic life.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me that Sr. Vassa has let her "fame" go to her head. I have found her videos to be helpful but I've noticed a change over time in the quality of her work. I've wondered what changed.
I think all Christians (Orthodox, Catholic, and Protestant) should run away from anyone offering spiritual counseling for a price. That is to me a red flag. A spiritual father or mother should be interested in the salvation of one's soul and not a profit.
Thank you!
DeleteShe is only a Rosophor Nun..not a full schema Nun.They are bound to vows of poverty and not to be intwinned in Worldly matters.She should be isolated.To make matters worse she is teaching in a Roman Catholic University in Vienna ..one that is promting Globslist, Progrssive, Semi Socialist Justice Warrior tactics."Sister" Vassa is from Orthodoxy.Orthodox Nuns are not called Sisters but Mothers.Every bit of her persona is a rejection of Orthodox ways.She pushes forward Female Priesthood..speaks dispargingly of the Synods lack of moving forward into modernity, Soft peddles Homosexuality as inate and unchangeable..as opposed to Orthodox thought..Homosexuality is no different than Any secual sin in that it is a passion that must be put to death, rejected that the person may have life.She agrees with Enshrining it..not killing it off in the control of passions.
DeleteI have yet to hear even one thing on her Mother..telling her to stop, correcting her, putting her under discipline for her extreamly poor council to The mother of a very young man having same sex attraction.After being strongly rebuked and contested for her actions she has now made it worse.She no long puts much out to any but paying subscribers.You cant just go to her site and chat.You must pay her and you must agree with her or be kicked out.This hides her greater teaching from scrutiny of her Holy Fathers and i assume her Holy Mother.
Disgraceful
At this juncture it seems self-evident that we need to write Sr. Vassa off as a source of counsel & information on spiritual life, and, instead, simply pray for her. When one is caught up in the passions his/her advice is not valuable (in fact, it's likely harmful) when it's free let alone offered for a price.
ReplyDeleteSince when do Orthodox faithful, much less Orthodox monastics (!) have heterodox for their "Spiritual Director"? We don't have "spiritual directors"; we have clerics or monastics that are "spiritual fathers."
ReplyDelete**Orthodox clerics or monastics, that is
DeleteRhonda,
DeleteNot sure if you are responding to my post above about my sister-in-law, but I should clarify that she is not Orthodox but Protestant. Part of what I was getting at is that there is a wide a very slippery slope around the whole notion of "spiritual directorship" in a particular way in our culture in that we *secularize* everything including spiritual direction.
Now, in a way I wish there was more creative use of our skills and technology such that more Orthodox (particuarly here in NA) could simply talk to a cleric, monastic, etc. In this Sr. Vassa is not wrong, but her problem (as I see it) is the problematic pay scheme as well as her abilities to "counsel" (notice that is a secularization of "spiritual fatherhood") at all given that she is more of an "academic" then an "monastic" in thinking...
RJ mentioned that Sr. Vassa "pushes forward Female Priesthood". That would be distressing, but what has she said to lead to this conclusion? I am sincerely asking, since I have read her scholarly articles and books (with great profit) but not much from her website.
ReplyDeleteThe one instance I know of is when she wrote about this on her personal blog which is behind her paywall. This was just a month or two after she initiated the pay scheme (and for which my wife had signed up). She couched it in a story about a relative of hers (niece if memory serves) who asked about why we don't ordain women, heard the/an answer, and "shrugged her shoulders". The phrase "shrugged her shoulders" was pressed into service as a kind of existential rejection of any and all theological support for women's ordination.
DeleteSr. Vassa was smart - she did not *explicitly* confront the issue but did so subversively. Those of us who have seen this sort of things before (in my case Anglican before coming to Orthodoxy 20 years ago) recognized what she was doing however.
My wife and I canceled our support at that time...
I meant to say "...as a kind of existential rejection of any and all theological rejection of women's ordination."
DeleteThank you, Jake. Sad to hear. I well remember such an approach from my own Anglican days.
DeleteThat is also how they took over my former church, the Presbyterian Church (USA). Vassa's advice was EXACTLY how the revisionists used rhetoric to undermine and later destroy my former church.
DeleteThe question is 'is there a bishop or an abbess who blessed Sr Vassa's activity?'
ReplyDeleteIf the answer is yes - I wonder who it is.
If the answer is no - think twice before doing a thing without a blessing.
If she isn't assigned to a monastery, it would appear that Archbishop Mark of Germany would be her ecclesiastical superior.
DeleteWow. Prelest?
ReplyDeleteThis is sad to see. I kept hoping we're wrong, that it's all just a big misunderstanding, though at this point it seems the bending over backwards for that to be the case would count as an Olympic event. It's sad to watch as someone looks to be wandering away into some sort of delusion (if not schism or heresy). It's even sadder to think that she could be leading people away with her. Lord, have mercy.
ReplyDeleteI too keep hoping we're wrong, since I have great esteem for Sr. Vassa, both personally and for her scholarly work. But the recent convergence of many different things is troubling--light-hearted references to her "zillions", being the subject of her own comic strip, charging for access to her teaching, instant lashing out and blocking of seemingly anyone who disagrees with her, and now charging for personal one-on-one access. They all point in the same troubling direction. May God protect her. It all underscores the need for accountability for those who teach. I have a wife, a bishop, fellow-clergy friends, a parish council and a congregation, all who can call me to account if I start to go off the rails. We all need such a hedge of protection to save us from ourselves.
DeleteWithout more evidence of disobedience or wrongdoing on Sr. Vassa's part, I find this judgmental focus on her activities Pharisaical and off-putting. Even if she was totally off-base in the matter of her advice to the mother of the gay teenager - and that I think is a matter for careful thought - it seems that you are jumping to very strong conclusions about what she does and how she does it. Her work has actually been very helpful to many people, even if you disagree with elements of it.
ReplyDeleteA little more charity and discretion would be a good thing here, it seems to me.
No Brian, it does not take "careful thought" or "jumping to conclusions" to see that she was indeed "totally off-base" in her advice. It is on the contrary, quite simple. Sr. Vassa explicitly recommended a course of tolerance and approval of sodomy (even if she used the euphemism of "dating"). It is also not "Pharisaical" to note the truth of this and her Holy Synod was in no way "Pharisaical" in humiliating her.
DeleteYour wanting to see a grey area and a complication where there is none...
Hi, Brian--
DeleteOne phrase in your post disturbs me: "a matter for careful consideration." It is not. To counsel someone to overlook, and even support, sin, is wrong. Period. End of story. God's revelation is not propositional, it is definitive. Orthodoxy, having the fullness of the Faith, doesn't teach from opinion, but from Revelation.
I can well understand why a sensitive soul who wants to do good for people would retreat behind a wall and
only deal with people who affirm her. There is a firestorm raging around her, and much of what is being said is unkind. But the fact remains that, as a monastic counseling a soul in need, she presented Christ's
Truth as propositional, offering her own opinion in parity. The first time that happened is reported in Genesis 3, and look where it's gotten us.
I wish Sister Vassa well. I hope she doesn't retreat into academic ambiguity--and even worse, fall prey to the enemies of her soul who would nuke her some sort of "martyr" for some sort of "freedom" or other. A Roman Catholic university is a very dangerous place, these days.
Don't try to be reasonable here Brian. This whole site attracts the very unfortunate fundamentalist crypto-Protestant wing of our Church. (See above where for Jake everything is black and white, literally). They generally seem to hate gay people and suspect everyone of being a secret modernizing enemy. You'll note that there is the same handful of people who comment on everything and say more or less the same things. Your energies are best spent elsewhere.
Delete"Your energies are best spent elsewhere. "
DeleteYet, here you are ;)
Your problem Hugh is that everything (about who and what you are) comes from your own mind, your own "self". Since your self is "gay", anyone who does not affirm your "gayness" is evil (i.e. filled with hate, etc.). You are unable, philosophically and "religously", to step away from this thinking and see man (anthropos) in a different way, such as a Christian does when he thinks who and what we are as created, sinful, and in a transitional state from one kind of being into another. Thus the Christian does not *indentify* his self/personhood with any particular state of nature or even wrong (and just as important, any right) use of said nature. In otherwords a Christian is able to do ontology.
You don't do ontology, you do identification (i.e. Cartesian epistomology). This leads directly to your moralistic understanding of createdness and created nature (i.e. I was born this way, thus it must be right) This make you the "fundamentalist" in the room Hugh, not I or anyone else here...
I'm here to draw out people like you, which you admirably help me with. People need to see this stuff to believe it.
DeleteOf course you hate gay people. You go out of your way to note that I'm gay (which I've not mentioned on this particular thread) and then describe it as the root of my supposed error with your rather painful pseudo-theological reasoning. I'm certainly glad you've never identified yourself as "straight" or "male" in your life, hah! Additionally, I never called anyone evil (one can surely be hateful and not evil). I never said "I was born this way, thus it must be right" showing that you didn't even bother to read the thread you're referring back to. Do you just file this stuff away and then copy and paste it....? At least read what you're trying to reference. Last of all, it is really reprehensible that you go so far as to insinuate that I'm not even Christian.
Brian, all of us are under the sway of our own disobedient pride. Me certainly. It is simple to see. She is not functioning as a monastic. She is function as a professor. That is sad for her most of all.
ReplyDeleteBut how is it your place to even say that about her? How do you know what her function actually is, or should be? She has a spiritual father, and unless you know differently, it's between her and him and the Lord Almighty as to what she's doing.
ReplyDeleteWho are you to judge another man's servant?
I do take your point about the need for restraint in responding to anything online. But Sr. Vassa, being a very public person with a large internet following, thereby invites comment, analysis, and even rebuke if her activities or comments seem to warrant it. Anyone who blogs (including myself) must be prepared for public censure as well as public praise. A blogger by the very act of publicly blogging forfeits the rights of privacy held by those without a more public face. It is not a matter of judging another's servant, but of offering the response that any blog piece invites.
DeleteBrian, not judging her at all. There is a basic incompatibility between being an academic in modern academe and being a monastic or even being a Christian.
DeleteA renown scholar, teacher and Christian apologist, Anthony Esolen, was recently driven from his tenured position at Providence College because he wasn't politically correct. Too Christian and too interested in actually teaching people to think, requiring them to write intelligibly and other basics of a well educated person.
Modern academe promotes modernity,progress and change and rebellion not a Christian understanding especially not an Orthodox mind.
Her words and actions seem to suggest that she has become highly inflenced by the modern academic mind.
You can't serve two masters.
Her council to the mother was wrong.
If you think any criticism is judgement that is also wrong too.
Michael,
DeleteI don't think any criticism is judgment, and I've already said that the issue of her counsel to the teenager is, in my opinion, fair game for comment/critique. But regarding your observations as to the quality of her monastic/spiritual life, particularly with respect to Sr. Vassa's participation in academia, we will have to agree to disagree. I repeat that that is beyond your knowledge and authority, as it is for any person that doesn't know the life of another intimately well who doesn't have spiritual authority or responsibility for her. You are certainly able to exercise your opinion. I just think it's judgmental to do so (as nearly by definition as I can conceive of).
But peace, brother. Christ is Risen!
I hope it takes not one whit from the peace I have wished you, Michael, to point out that I am familiar with Anthony Esolen's story, having read a few articles about it, including the interview where he talks about his decision to leave Providence. But, in point of fact and logic, there is nothing inherently true in your assertion that it is impossible to be a Christian in the modern academy. Let me hasten to add that you and I are probably deeply in agreement about the terrible, hellish state of the universities, so it's not a personal disagreement. It's just factually and logically unsound to make such a naked and blanket assertion. I actually know a deeply Orthodox man, a communicant in ROCOR, who is in an academic theology program. He is as traditional and deep as anyone I've met, in or out of monasteries (not that I'm a judge of hearts, but I think you know what I mean). And he really surprised me when he told me that his department, at a Catholic University, was very orthodox and full of faithful Christians. The rest of his (Jesuit) school was not Christian at all, but his department was. Not incidentally, I believe Sr. Vassa is in a theology department.
DeleteAll of which just shows that your blanket assertions/assumptions, particularly as to the quality of another person's spiritual life and/or obedience, are really not justified.
But peace again!!
Father, with respect, I disagree. I think your point germane to the controversy a few weeks ago with respect to the gay teenager. (And again, I think the situation is more nuanced than what I thought was presented here and elsewhere. But that need not cloud my point.) But here, the discussion is aimed at Sr. Vassa's paid video chats. It's certainly possible that the particular matters discussed in those chats will reek of heresy. It's equally possible that they will be fully grounded in the Faith and a blessing to those who avail themselves of it. It's possible that Sr. Vassa is doing this without a blessing. It's equally possible (and more likely) that she is doing it with a blessing.
ReplyDeleteEither way, to attack and hold up to snide comment the integrity of this general activity is wrong, at least, as I said initially, without evidence of such.
Brian,
DeleteIt is not "snide" to note that in fact Sr. Vassa has not acknowledged her error, her humiliation by her Holy Synod - indeed she appears to have publicly rejected it. You are correct in that Bishop Mark has given her a blessing in the past for her internet ministry/activies, but her current behavior seems to be in contradiction to that. Appearances can be deceiving however and it could be that he believes her humiliation is enough and has in fact accepted her behavior that appears to be a repudiation of it. If this is so, then the Church has a problem with Bishop Mark and well as Sr. Vassa...
Brian, I think I am getting confused with who is talking to who about what. I agree that we should say little about the content of Sr. Vassa's chats or the issue of whether or not she does this with a blessing. And being snide is always unnecessary. My only point in my 1:31 pm comment was that it is possible to disagree with an online blogger without being judgmental. The only point of my 12:11 pm comment was that I found her whole approach to ministry troubling and perhaps a little dangerous, since she seems to lack sufficient accountability, and blocking all dissident responses can often lead to trouble. Obviously I cannot know how much accountability she actually has, but it cannot include spouse, parish council, or congregation, and seems not to include the bishops were publicly censured her.
DeleteI AM tired. I should have written "the bishops WHO publicly censured her". Sigh.
DeleteSorry, I see that I should have hit "reply." My 3:22 PM comment was in reply to Fr. Lawrence.
ReplyDelete