Thursday, August 6, 2020

Contactless communion in plastics cups in the Coptic Church


  1. If you can't or won't commune them properly, then don't commune them at all.

    We have been taught that the Faith is tactile and material and that the icons are real, and now we're told in effect that it's just malleable ritual. If I wanted that kind of faith, then I would have stayed Protestant.

    1. Here is an icon for you:

    2. Are we even allowed to venerate them now?

  2. The spread of European Secularism and the abandonment of the Apostolic Faith within Orthodox countries has led many not to believe that Holy Communion is the Body and Blood of our Lord. Holy Communion is now seen as a ritual that commemorates the historical event of the last Supper. This is why Archbishop Soterios and Archbishop Elpidophoros, who have fully embraced the heresy of Ecumenism, declare that Holy Communion can infect people and multiple spoons should be used to avoid infection.

    1. Copts affirm the Real Presence.

    2. Father, Bless.

      What is the difference between this, multiple spoons or "disinfecting" the spoon, as they do in Russian practice? I would argue that there is no difference, and with all due respect, this comment reeks of Ecclesial politics rather than a matter of Faith.

      With that said, none of this changes what is in the Chalice.

    3. All the more reason not to deposit the Sacred Mysteries in a plastic cup.

      The Church should put up or shut up. If the ritual and method is necessary reverence, and we have been assured for centuries it is, then they should not be defiled on the whim of secular authorities. If there are still concerns over this method of ministration of the Sacraments, then they should not be served.

    4. This comment has been removed by the author.

    5. Anti-Gnostic,

      Should people be deprived of the Sacred Mysteries for this reason? During times of persecution the Holy Gifts were placed inside apples or other fruit and consumed in that way. Was that "defilement?"

      Should funerals be denied to Orthodox who were forced to be cremated, as was the case in Japan in the past?

      What is in the Chalice is Our Lord. Sometimes Caesar attempts to get in the way, and the Church has gone around him (sometimes in very "creative" ways that are technically "uncanonical"). I am against multiple spoons, plastic cups and "disinfecting," because I firmly believe that the Chalice and Spoon itself is not the problem (that isn't to say that the Narthex and elsewhere can't be places of disease). With that said, we are in a germophobic culture and it has become an issue for many.

      I don't like the idea of "disinfecting" the spoon/multiple spoons or whatever, but I also won't condemn a bishop who decides to do this. I see it as an act of Economy for those of weaker faith and a way to get Caesar off the Church's back. Is it the right thing to do? That isn't for me to say. If a sin is committed, it is theirs, not mine------the terrible responsibilities of a bishop, all the more reason we should pray them constantly.

      As I said, nothing that is done changes the truth of the Chalice. Putting the Holy Gifts in an apple and using multiple spoons is of the same spirit, in my view. A way to minister in harsh times. What possible good can come from denying the faithful Holy Communion?

    6. Then the secular authorities can order the Gifts to be mailed as well. And I'd submit, at that point, you're just eating bread and wine.

      Maybe it's okay to place the Body and Blood of our Lord in a plastic cup, or an ice cream cone, or a Ziploc bag. If that's the case, then there are probably some other secular reforms in mind for the praxis as well. Apparently it's just not that big a deal.

      There is historical precedent for postponing Eucharistic services. Again, if you cannot commune them properly, then don't commune them at all.

      "and a way to get Caesar off the Church's back"

      That is a laughable comment. The Church is clearly already subordinate to the State. Caesar's not just on your back; he's got you bent over a table. But at least he's wearing a condom.

    7. Anti-Gnostic,

      But it is a big deal. That is the point I am trying to make. None of this is normal, or good.

      You addressed nothing of what I said, except to zero in on one part to make a very vulgar comment.

      There is also "historical precedent" for "un-Orthodox" Communion practices. For the record, I don't think any Bishop actually likes or supports the idea of multiple spoons/disinfecting/plastic cups-----I will agree that plastic cups are offensive, but why are we concerned with what the non-Chalcedonians are doing?

      The Ecumenical Patriarchate actually came out rather forcefully against changing the mode of Holy Communion, and bluntly states that you can't get sick from the Chalice. Of course, each Bishop is dealing with different situations, so they are deciding things accordingly.

      Would you declare the Liturgies in the Gulags "invalid" because of how they were celebrated and with what materials? Would you denounce the holy priests who smuggled the Holy Gifts in fruit and other creative ways? You addressed none of this.

  3. Lord have mercy, this is like what the Lutherans, and many protestant sects do, disposable plastic cups! well the monophysites already started to embrace Protestant style Charamastic hymns, and Bible studies at home, and the diaspora, as well as talking in tongues, it heartbreaking to see so many disregard the Gifts as mere symbolism or a ritual, Christ came to heal, not to bring death, of course one should properly prepare.