"I am the door. By me if any man enter in he shall be saved, and shall go in and out and find pasture." - John 10:9 At every parish where I have had the pleasure of attending services, there is always a small group of people who find their way all the way up to the church building but don't actually attend services. At one parish it was a group of male gypsies who talked on cellphones or smoked cigarettes. At another it was a few Protestant husbands who, though they never attended services, opened the parish doors for people as they filed in. At yet another parish the men stood in the narthex and chatted until it was time to receive and then got in line. Latin or Greek Catholic, Eastern or Oriental Orthodox I see the same small throng of men standing next to the front door, but not standing, sitting, or kneeling amongst the people. If it were me (and I can only speak for myself here) this option would be an unsavory one. The boredom would be immediate. The anxiety of som...
"...mission accomplished..."
ReplyDeleteThe layman, Epiphany, is having delusions again.
ReplyDeleteThe truth of # of parishes is undoubtedly between the 60 and 600 figures given with much of the descrepency most likely due to parishes splitting instead of wholly going over or being legally before a court (and exageration...). So the OCU has gone from ~4k/6.5k priests/parishes to ~4.5/7k, the UOC MP has gone from 12.4/12k to ~12.2/11.8k. The polls show the about 5% of adherents have switched (40% of Orth Ukrainians for OCU vs 20% for UOCMP). It shows how divided Ukr is East and West and how very much the MP isnt going away. So maybe the consolidation of the two churches of OCU has been a success, but I think the idea that the MP churches would flock over has been a resounding failure.
ReplyDeleteYou have to add to that equation however many parishes Filaret broke back off again.
DeleteMy understanding is that there is a handful of parishes with him as evidenced by the couple dozen priests that showed up to his council.
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ReplyDelete"...It shows how divided Ukr is East and West and how very much the MP isnt going away..."
ReplyDeleteThis is right. You don't have to dig very far into Ukrainian history and culture to understand that the Ukraine is a "divide" between East and West (ecclesiastically and culturally) as a whole and within it there is a divide between the east and west. The irony of the MP's position (and thus its "failure") is that it wants to impose a Russian-ness (culturally and ecclesiastically) upon the Ukraine from the outside, and yet it accuses the EP of popish/roman motivations. The EP is merely recognizing the ethno-national ecclesiology of Orthodoxy in the Ukraine - the EP is applying the status quo.
In other words, welcome to "jurisdictionalism", welcome to the future. Actually, welcome to the present - the actual ontology of Orthodoxy while everyone talks much about conciliarity.
Hello Jake, this has some truth but more a Pan-Slavism than just Russian-ness. In my visits the MP seems to have patriotic symbols (ie flags, mostly Ukr born priests and parishes with Ukr language programs in the west (though Slavonic in liturgy). There is also a sense among people I spoke to that the MP was less political (ie nationalistic) than the OCU. Some see that as desirable (putting Christ first) and others angry at failing Ukrainians at their darkest hour.
DeleteIts a good question whether a separate language group/state/ethnic group needs its own church, one that has big implications here in the West/Macedonia/Hertzagrova that I feel hasn't been solved satisfactorily. Definitely EP and MP disagree.
If this is a "success" I am not sure what a "failure" would look like.
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