Is the male-only priesthood a discipline or essential to the nature of being a priest? Sr. Vassa (again unflinchingly taking up a contentious topic by climbing up the ladder to the highest platform and then jumping into the deep end head first) dives right in and says there is no reason beyond personal preference to not have female clergy. You know, when people ask me about women in priesthood, they say, 'Sister, why can't women be priests?' And I say, 'Women CAN be priests. We don't WANT them to be priests.' Because you see, God can do anything, and the Church, by divine authority, uh, can do anything, but, the Church doesn't want to - and that's a legitimate reason. What I don't like is when we TRY to pretend that there are other reasons for this, because it's legitimate not to want something, and there are reasons not to want this - right? - but, we shouldn't pretent that there's some... reason, that, for example, the maleness...
"...mission accomplished..."
ReplyDeleteThe layman, Epiphany, is having delusions again.
ReplyDeleteThe truth of # of parishes is undoubtedly between the 60 and 600 figures given with much of the descrepency most likely due to parishes splitting instead of wholly going over or being legally before a court (and exageration...). So the OCU has gone from ~4k/6.5k priests/parishes to ~4.5/7k, the UOC MP has gone from 12.4/12k to ~12.2/11.8k. The polls show the about 5% of adherents have switched (40% of Orth Ukrainians for OCU vs 20% for UOCMP). It shows how divided Ukr is East and West and how very much the MP isnt going away. So maybe the consolidation of the two churches of OCU has been a success, but I think the idea that the MP churches would flock over has been a resounding failure.
ReplyDeleteYou have to add to that equation however many parishes Filaret broke back off again.
DeleteMy understanding is that there is a handful of parishes with him as evidenced by the couple dozen priests that showed up to his council.
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ReplyDelete"...It shows how divided Ukr is East and West and how very much the MP isnt going away..."
ReplyDeleteThis is right. You don't have to dig very far into Ukrainian history and culture to understand that the Ukraine is a "divide" between East and West (ecclesiastically and culturally) as a whole and within it there is a divide between the east and west. The irony of the MP's position (and thus its "failure") is that it wants to impose a Russian-ness (culturally and ecclesiastically) upon the Ukraine from the outside, and yet it accuses the EP of popish/roman motivations. The EP is merely recognizing the ethno-national ecclesiology of Orthodoxy in the Ukraine - the EP is applying the status quo.
In other words, welcome to "jurisdictionalism", welcome to the future. Actually, welcome to the present - the actual ontology of Orthodoxy while everyone talks much about conciliarity.
Hello Jake, this has some truth but more a Pan-Slavism than just Russian-ness. In my visits the MP seems to have patriotic symbols (ie flags, mostly Ukr born priests and parishes with Ukr language programs in the west (though Slavonic in liturgy). There is also a sense among people I spoke to that the MP was less political (ie nationalistic) than the OCU. Some see that as desirable (putting Christ first) and others angry at failing Ukrainians at their darkest hour.
DeleteIts a good question whether a separate language group/state/ethnic group needs its own church, one that has big implications here in the West/Macedonia/Hertzagrova that I feel hasn't been solved satisfactorily. Definitely EP and MP disagree.
If this is a "success" I am not sure what a "failure" would look like.
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