Bishop Athenagoras of Nazianzos issued an apology for his participation in the Hindu celebration discussed here. As I said elsewhere online, I was quite surprised to see such a heartfelt and unreserved apology. It wasn't couched in words akin to "I'm sorry you feel that way," it was done publicly, and it was also quite clear. I struggle to think of any other hierarch apologizing for anything in the last few years; to this day no one has apologized for the craven response to COVID, for example.
Also, let me say that some have taken exception to me singling out the Greek Archdiocese in some way. As if I let the Russian Church do whatever it wants, but hold the GOA to a different standard. To that, let me say two things. First, this blog is replete with articles on the topic of ecumenism by all sides. Second, the Russian Church - when it was helmed by Met. Hilarion of the DECR on such topics - had a much more sustainable model. Find areas where people of different faiths agree on things (human rights, peaceful resolution to conflict, the family, etc.) and work together, but do not do so in such a way that we pretend unity or equivalency are at hand. That sort of cooperation I can recommend.
Posts
I have no objection to an honest form of ecumenism. After all you can't convert someone that you won't talk to. Nor do I object to conversations aimed at better understanding, promotion of peaceful coexistence, charity or other obviously virtuous activities as mentioned by BT. The problem to my mind is religious syncretism. As far as the Russian Church is concerned, false ecumenism does not appear to be a major problem. Moscow's problem is its obsequious bootlicking of the Putin dictatorship and its scandalous endorsement of a cruel war of aggression by the largest Orthodox Christian country against the world's 2nd largest Orthodox country.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with your statement. I have much respect for the Russian Orthodox Church, because that is where I was baptised as a baby. I grew up attending both OCA and ROCOR parishes, both of which use the Russian liturgical tradition. I am thankful to the ROC and ROCOR for creating and preserving that tradition. I have respect for ROCOR, and am impressed by how they have overcome their origins as a church for Russian refugees and are transforming into "a house of prayer for all nations".
DeleteThat said, I cannot stand the Russian Orthodox Church cracking down on the clergy who do not support Putin's war in Ukraine and wholeheartedly praying for Russian victory in this same, unjust war. I want to serve the church, but I do not feel comfortable doing so in ROCOR while Patriarch Kirill is wholeheartedly supporting the Russian government's actions. I understand Bishop Job's stance of "We commemorate him, but we do not support him" with reference to Patriarch Kirill. The question is how to celebrate the church services and pray for Kirill knowing that he is endorsing something wrong.
The problem is, these people knowingly do these things then turn around and say "I'm sorry". What an easy way out.
ReplyDelete"...this of course was not done by my choice, I did not volunteer to go there, I can assure you that before I agreed to go on behalf of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America I made certain that there would be no prayer service as far as I was aware during my short visit..." {from around 3:55}
ReplyDeleteThis part of his speech (which I note he is reading at this point) does not not seem an "unreserved" apology to me:
1) On a personal level, it comes across as a self justification - the opposite of an apology, a kind of claim of innocence. On the other hand, perhaps we can recognize he really is "innocent" in the sense that it was an involuntary action on his part as he claims...
2) ...Does this mean he is a 'prisoner of the system', or to use the language of St. Paul a "slave" of the EP/GOA spirit of his hierarchy in general and practically in matters such as this when his boss says "go here and say/do this sort of thing"? Does this mean that in this fallen and messy world bishops/clergy will "sin" involuntarily (in this case against the Truth of the Gospel), apologize for it later, and that laity *being part of the same fallen system* are to recognize 'the system' for being a kind of *necessity* that will do these sorts of things on occasion?...
3) ...if so, is this kind of acceptance (however pious - always couched in pious reference to "remove the plank in your own eye...", etc.) not contrary of what St. Paul wrote in Romans?
...except that he continues: "And I can also assure you that this is something I definitely do not want to participate in again. I am asking for your forgiveness," having earlier said: "So, our responsibility is not only big, but enormous. I understand that, recently, I made a mistake. I thought I was obedient, but I should examine things better before acting."
DeleteSo there is an element of self-justification in the sense that he says that this was Abp. Elpidophoros' bad idea that he went along with out of a sense of obedience, *but* it seems to me a genuine apology in the sense that he says he shouldn't have done it and won't do it again. Assuming that this is a genuine commitment to stand up more directly to the Archbishop when he orders something wrong, there are important implications here, especially if more GOA bishops follow suit.
I see your point sparrow. I agree, the implications are important.
DeleteI wonder, what does it mean (what are the implications) to have a man such as this who (apparently) puts the truth of the Gospel before the current spirit of the EP/GOA? Remember, this is the institution/jurisdiction that contains the Fordham boys, Arch. Elpidophoros (the "gay baptizer" among other things), and asks you your preferred pronouns if you attend HCHC - all of these examples merely the symptoms of an underlying "progressive" and worldly spirit of the whole GOA.
Can he, will he, maintain his integrity before the pressure of his boss (he is a mere "auxiliary bishop" and "secretary" after all) and not be molded into the usual company man over time? I pray he does, but the system is what it is because it is in the main successful at just such formation...
Not to question Bishop Athenagoras' apology, but, this event happened in October, I would have assumed if he were contrite then he would have issued a formal apology as soon as it happened. Also, if Elpidophoros made him do it, then that's a symptom of a bigger problem.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, he did issue a formal public apology and we should accept it.
There is a game that is taught in all business schools. this game is that if you ask permission, what you want to do is put in jeapordy. And you risk being told no. However, if you do want to do what you want to do, and it does not work out well, you can always ask for forgiveness. you have a played a game, you knew there would be a downside, but the safer way is to do want you want anyway and then ask for forgiveness. The proper management response is not accept the apology but to inflict punishment for the use of poor judgement. from what i have heard from the above in this case would defrockment be the appropriate response? Why reward a person for their use of poor judgement when it is apparent to all that they chose to tred on thin ice?
ReplyDeleteWe are not a corporation. And our "business" is forgiveness.
Deleteif a transgression is knowlingly performed, should there not be some punishment associated with it? Forgiveness is one thing, but associated wth i, there needs to be some responsibility for waht is being forgiven.
DeleteAs Newton said, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
If standards are not respected then chaos is created. This is why we have the canons of the church. I would forgive the person, but punish the knowing intent. Demotion would be a viable consideration, otherwise why have standards or norms if they are to be ignored. By not addressing the suppossed evil is not the evil reinforced.
So, you are saying bad boy, bad boy, and then what do you do when he helps to lay the cornestone for the new mosque, or jewish temple, or wicken altar? Say bad boy again? The forgiveness is to allow further communion in the church. the responsibiity for the ill thought out actions is the defrockment.
Mr Klanko,
DeleteFirst, I appreciate you pointing out that the Gospel is not (within Orthodoxy or any other traditional/classical Christianity) a "Cheap Grace". In other words, we are in the business of forgiveness AND *repentance* - Both and (together), not either or. If I were to identify my biggest disappointment with typical Orthodox spirit/culture/mind found in the parishes/'jurisdictions' I have been a part of it might be this spirit (this half Gospel) of cheap grace that is all too common and very familiar (even if the expression/piety is very different) to the liberal Protestantism of my youth.
However, the system will not hold him accountable in the way you describe because the system is what approves - his boss sent him there on purpose and the overall spirit found within EP/GOA approves. Indeed, he will in all likelihood (if he has not already) be punished for his repentance of the spirt of "dialogue" which he publicly rejected...
Very well put jake. the sanctifed brethren, as Garrison Kiellor would put it, need to recognze that not only are they accountable to God, but also to their laity. They need to be Biblical models and hold to what the church and the Bible dictate and not what they desire.
DeleteIn my mind, if we are church of forgiveness, then our priorities should be focused on the Oriental Orthodox and forgive them of their apparent differences so we can become one again, and also unite ourselves into one Holy Orthodox Church in America and put all of our petty ethnic differences aside, and place Christian love and unity as a first priority.. Sending all foreign bishops back to their homelands where they revel in their ethnicities and with their churches severing ties with their foreign overlords.